A small section of the caves in GHZ1 has the same layout as a small section of PP2. It's one small chunk and is just a little reference. Likening it Frontiers outright copying entire level layouts repeatedly is disingenuous.
The constant cries about how Sonic fans are "hypocrites" for saying it's bad that Frontiers reuses levels, but are apparently fine with Kirby or Mega Man doing the same thing with Whispy Wood and Central Highway, are getting under my skin. It irritates me. I am so irritated that people are acting as if there's no nuance, not one contextual difference that makes one more acceptable than the other. The reason it's "ok" for Kirby to keep using Whispy Woods is pretty much the same reason it's "ok" for Sonic to keep using Eggman as a villain, or for Mega Man to keep using Dr. Wily as a villain: it's been that way from the very beginning. Sure, if Green Hill was the first level of every Sonic game, we'd probably never get bored of it, and we'd be calling it "tradition" and "iconic", but that point is moot because that's not what this series does. Even with Sonic 2, the first level has different ground patterns, different trees, different waterfalls, different enemies, a different background, etc etc to where even if it WAS Green Hill (as it was during development), the aesthetic wouldn't seem so much like a rehash. Now, Sonic Team has made it their mission to have checkerboarded grounds, polygonal palmtrees, and Motobugs in every Sonic game. As for Central Highway, the intro stage from Mega Man X: it's been used in Maverick Hunter X, X7, Xtreme 1, ZX, ZX Advent, and X DiVE. But it tends to justify its existence much better. In MHX, that game is a remake, so OF COURSE it's going to show up there. In X7, that was the first time the stage had been fully rendered in 3D, and that's why fans are ok with Green Hill being in SA2 because it was the same thing there. Xtreme was essentially a collection of remixed levels from X1 & X2, which is what the Game Boy MM games had been doing up to that point, so it's easier to forgive, especially in the context of it being a Game Boy game. ZX was a throwback, with the exact same level layout, but at least it was in a brand new cyberpunk artstyle which was cool to see, and again, this is why Sonic fans were generally ok with the zone showing up in Sonic Advance 3, because that was also a brand new artstyle. ZX Advent is harder to forgive: I can definitely tell you that at the time, us MM fans didn't care for the game shoving in every possible reference they could simply because it was the 20th anniversary of the series. But at least as an anniversary title, it was easier to swallow, since being an anniversary title actually meant something back when games didn't take 5-6 years to develop. X DiVE....it's a fucking mobile gacha spinoff. I don't think anyone gives a shit about it compared to how they would about a brand new mainline AAA entry. You think Sonic fans care that Green Hill is in Sonic Runners? Get real.
Gonna be blunt: this looks painfully average. From the video, Sonic’s open world controls seems jerky. Players seem to be satisfied so maybe it’s due to the animation. That said I don’t see his speed being used in interesting ways. It’s only used to bridge the gap between combat and automated set pieces. The recycling of level design in the cyberspace levels is unacceptable. In mania the entire premise was that the first act resued level design and the 2nd remixed it with new gimmicks. In frontiers there is no guarantee that later GHZ/CP/Sky Sanctuary levels will have original or remixed levels design. But mania is also an unfair comparison as the game had many levels fans hadn’t seen in years. This would be like if half of a “Mania 2” only used level assets and layouts from Mania 1. I see good ideas here. If later open zone areas give the players more freedom than it could be fun. But with Kishimoto at the helm and this game being developed during a corporate restructuring and covid my hopes are low. This games wreaks of bitting off more than they could chew. There’s combat, there’s open world and there’s boost. But none of them look exceptional. Maybe I’ll be proven wrong. And I’m happy for anyone who likes what they see. But for me, despite the game having some more polish than what we saw from IGN, Frontiers continues to reach new lows.
Got to say, the pause after every single Homing Attack is probably my biggest problem with what Sonic looks to be doing in the cyberspace footage so far.
I get the feeling this is gonna be a Sonic Colors situation where the mainstream and casuals love this game while the most hard-core fans vocally hate it. Except this time Classic fans get to share in the misery with Adventure fans of having a game that neither caters to their taste or take pleasure in the game actively getting rid of the things they dislike about the series Yup, we're all miserable together this time.
I'm kinda concerned based on what I'm seeing of Cyberspace. Open world zone gameplay like this thrives on its gameplay loops. Frontiers' gameplay loop, despite mentions that cyberspace can be bypassed, is essentially exploring the open zone, collecting keys from bosses, entering cyberspace, earning keys from that to get chaos emeralds and unlock more areas of the map. Cyberspace levels don't seem to be all that interesting due to the blatant reuse of level design from Generations which is egregious so that leaves it up to the open zone to pick up the slack. Problem is, even if the open zone were a lot more in-depth than what we're currently seeing, the reason to explore it doesn't sustain the loop as well as it should and the loop begins to collapse as a result. I'm definitely intrigued by the story and music, but the gameplay, despite my earlier optimism, isn't looking really good right now.
Oh nice, so we're framing these differences of opinion as an "us vs. them" thing now? That's healthy. Edit: Actually this is what all of this arguing has been, but christ how many sides are we going to keep tacking on?
Yeah, 'cause classic fans were all REAL satisfied by Forces. Nah, Forces' whole issue was that it was trying to be a jack of all trades and appeal to every fan's preferences all at once, but it spread itself so thin that it couldn't satisfy ANYONE. People who like SA2 aren't gonna be happy with three stages of Shadow DLC, a poorly-executed SRS BSNS story, and a cutscene-exclusive appearance by Chaos, any more than 16-bit fans are gonna be happy with a Classic Sonic who gets to fight one boss, has fewer levels than everyone else, barely has anything to do in the plot, and plays worse than he did in Generations. Anymore than BOOST fans would love a game that actually takes that tired "boost to win" criticism as a challenge. Really, the folks I've talked to who loved Forces the most are the ones who got really into the Avatar stuff, and I do think that's the most fleshed-out part of the game. --- EDIT: It occurs to me, you probably meant that /last/ time, we also got Sonic Mania. And yeah, I got there eventually, but I'd have had a much easier time taking Frontiers for what it is if there was any sort of follow-up on Mania. I've been a Sega fan my whole life, I've seen what they're capable of, and even I didn't think they'd let that slip through their fingers, the dumb bastards. xD --- As far as Frontiers goes though, the more I see and hear about the game, the more I'm looking forward to it. Several articles from June from people who'd played a *lot* more of the game than just a 15 minute demo described the cyberspace levels in glowing terms, even saying some players may see them as "the real meat of the game." The footage we're seeing come out of Gamecom doesn't seem to back that up, but like... it's bits and pieces from a demo of areas EXTREMELY early in the game, and the layouts DO seem to get more dense among players who got further in, so I'm still holding onto "what if?" And it doesn't hurt that the open zone stuff actually sounds better the more I learn about it, too. Aside from the boring realistic visuals and the SRS BSNS tone, I'm at least intrigued by everything I'm seeing/hearing on Frontiers. More than anything, I just can't wait to get my hands on it. And considering how cold I was on it initially, there must be something there!
I I meant more the people who prefer the Cyberspace levels over the open world stuff when the latter is the main focus. Most people don't seem to care about the open world and wanted more focus on Cyberspace....at least until they started recycling levels.
I feel like they dropped the one-button thing after '06 because they finally realized that modern controllers actually have many buttons. It was always a bit silly anyway, SA2 would be 10x better if light dash was mapped separately lol
Where's that top left image from? It's getting me quite intrigued... EDIT: And miraculously, reverse search got me results xD https://www.deviantart.com/segaalys/art/And-Yet-We-re-Settling-for-Less-837212629
A lot of folks *here* didnt seem to care about the open world. In general, once we knew we had an open world sonic game, i think the major consensus was that it seemed interesting and that what most were excited for. Hell, for folks i know who dont like sonic, its the element that actually got them somewhat interested. A lot of folks in this very thread, meanwhile, were trying to frame the open world as a glorified hub world with some puzzles.
I don't think it's any coincidence that Sonic games actually started using the buttons on modern controllers the very second Naka was out of the picture.
Different impressions from people on this board in reaction to an upcoming Sonic game. Spoiler You'll be forgiven if you thought any of these quotes were talking about Frontiers, though. These are actually quotes made five years ago in response to Sonic Forces, prior to that game's release.
You can really tell how old the demographic is here based on those reactions lmao. I can't even exclude myself since I prefer more Arcade experiences over open world stuff myself.
