I don’t think Iizuka’s acting in contempt of the fans but because he knows the game so much better than us. Of course it’s not possible to speak for the man but I have a suspicion that he believes in this one in a way he didn’t believe in Forces. Thinking back to the infamous “we wanted to make the game as easy to play as possible”, I remember thinking that was such a weasel of an excuse and I think Iizuka was aware and simply doing his best to not send the game out to die. Here, meanwhile, he’s not making excuses for the game in the same way, he said “eyo y’all ain’t seen shit yet just wait for more stuff to come out”, which I think is entirely fair given the timing of the statement. The IGN First marketing was awfully botched (probably by SEGA but I digress), but each successive preview has shown the game in a better light and garnered increasing amounts of optimism. At any rate, if Iizuka really did just have contempt for the series and fans I don’t think he’d still be here. I think Sonic is very much his baby but he has historically struggled to make the franchise shine in an environment that has until recently demanded at least one new game every year (and still does to an extent, albeit mercifully divvied up across different teams).
I agree with you however I’ll add that we prob need to wait for Frontiers to come out to accurately judge Iizuka’s actions during this marketing cycle. If the game is great, or even if it’s just better than Forces, than we could determine that Iizuka was legitimately confident about the game. At the same time we need to recognize that there is still a great deal out of Iizuka’s control. For instance shortly after the first IGN footage came out Iizuka was asked if he had the power to delay the game. Iizuka did not directly answer, because he doesn’t have the power to delay frontiers. I’m not saying that Frontiers needs a delay but if it does than Iizuka is not in a position where he can publicly say that. He has to make Frontiers sound good. It seems that Iizuka’s more excited compared to Forces but that’s just my gut opinion. Tbc I say this with no ill will towards Iizuka, who I think is severely undervalued by the Sonic fanbase. Additionally I don’t buy this idea that Sonic Team is sick of trying to keep up with what the fanbase wants. Iizuka is why we got Mania which is exactly what the fanbase wanted. Plus Iizuka just moved to America to better connect with the fanbase (although I believe he moved AFTER development of Frontiers started).
I agree and I also question 'fans' because most of the hate seems to come from people who say the usual crap all 3D Sonic games are crap and I haven't enjoyed a Sonic game since the 16 bit days. In short, people are just jumping on the Sonic hate bandwagon, that one sees time and time again, the shame happens with any EA game, Ubisoft openworld game or COD game. Shadow was terrible, truly awful but it was just a spin-off and Sonic 06 was just an unfinished mess, but most of the other Sonic 3D games have been ok to good I'm really liking what I'm seeing in Sonic Frontiers, more so in terms of control and fluid movement, that's been a issue I've had with the Boost style Sonic games you never feel in complete control (Unleashed suffered bad from this) I can't wait to play Frontiers on my Series X. I just hope there's some nice variation in the environments, that was my only issue with Halo Infinite
Huh, I guess I thought that phrase meant something different than it did. The point is, if we try to move away from the idea that everything is subjective, the criteria we use to define "conventional standards" are gonna be just as disputed as any "objective" judgement of quality. It's a moving target.
I don't mind the more-muted color palettes of the islands but I wish the architecture could still be interesting. Loops don't need to be everywhere but I'd like to see interesting jagged peaks, overhanging cliffs, natural arches, and layered waterfall cascades and stuff. I've been playing Xenoblade 3 lately and I guess it's what I'd consider a good kind of "realistic fantasy" world? I dunno if it would be a perfect fit for this game but I'd still like to see some of that stuff here.
I loathe realism and especially photo-realism in games and in general, but I'm not bothered by the opening/tutorial island and other early areas being muted, bland, and barren. I like my Sonic to be brightly coloured and surreal, so I would not be happy if that classic aesthetic was confined to cyberspace zones or whatever. Hopefully the normal islands get progressively funkier and surreal.
Just to sidestep all of the discussion about realism and artstyle because I simply can't be bothered with that right now... Are we even looking at the same game? The boost games (including all characters in Generations and Forces) limited Sonic's movement controls so that he steers more like a car, but that's not the only issue that they that prevents the player from being in total control. The boost games and even Lost World are littered with springs and boosters that force you along set paths constantly. They're used to put the player into certain directions at set speeds so aggressively that they repeatedly show up in areas where you'll already be following a linear path when you hit them. They're virtually pointless, but make sure that you stick to the pre-determined path just in case you were at risk of using any ingenuity if your own. Then there are the grinding rails which play themselves, asking the player just to walk vaguely in their direction to attach and then to switch lanes like a mobile autorunner (or just watch the grind rail 'cutscene'). And next, splines are everywhere. If you don't know what they are, they're the invisible paths that Sonic will follow when he's going around corners, through loops or any other time he seems to control just a bit too smoothly without your input. Sometimes he'll run automatically when he reaches an invisible trigger (the wooden loop in Generations' GHZ1, the first big loop in Forces' Space Port) or other times it'll be more subtle as he will follow a curved path when you only press forwards (basically everywhere in the boost games). Then finally on the note of splines, there are all of the scripted, false physics, such as this particularly egregious moment in Colours. That behaviour applies to virtually all of the ramps, slopes and such in the boost games, but a lot of people seem not to notice. That example is one of the most obvious because Sonic launches so high and fast despite barely walking. Frontiers has its "open" areas, but they just look like incredibly non-descriptor filler wherein you do basically nothing between boost-style automated platforming. Automation still pops up in the middle of these fields too, breaking the illusion of freedom and control. The level design of Frontiers feels like someone chopped up any given boost stage into bitesize chunks and scattered the pieces across an open field. Chuck in some basic combat and that's SEGA's bold and new "Open Zone" format for Sonic. Frontiers is a boost game in disguise, and it's not helped by the cyberspace levels looking like they came directly out of Colours or Forces. Yes, Sonic looks like he no longer controls like a car, which is a good change. But I wouldn't say that his movement controls look particularly good, and he's still being assaulted by the aforementioned random springs and boosters snapping him to paths in what's supposed to be an open field. I could complain about a lot of things regarding Forces, but the most offensive in my books is just how similar it looks to all of the boost games. I am desperate for something different, and I expected Frontiers to bring change. The unfortunate reality however is that it's so painfully similar to the boost games that all of my gripes from them have been maintained, and in some cases are even amplified. I honestly don't know what Sonic Team spent so long doing to end up barely a few steps from where they started.
When this cornerstone of future Sonic games keeps its promise, we'll get more "biomes" in a sequel, I think. I kinda don't expect this game to have a cave zone, for example. Also, let's not forget there's Sonic Prime around the corner.
I don't mind the art direction here, I'm actually very excited for it. But how cool would it be to have open world areas based on traditional Sonic levels/tropes? For example Big's Big World does what I think is a good job of blending old sonic levels with each other in an open world environment.
I had major issues with the control of Sonic in Sonic Unleashed and got in way of levels like Dragon Road, when you need some precise jumping and I just could never work out how Sonic Team got the control of Sonic so spot on in their 1st 3D game, but never be able to replicate since. Sonic Frontiers looks to nail back the controls I love the new look, its looks like a game the old ICO Team in terms of visual design. I can't wait for the game myself
What issues did you have with Sonic's controls in Unleashed? He was very slippery at low speeds, which made running around in the entrance stages and navigating the rotating disc platforms in Dragon Road difficult. But that and a bit of stiffness to sharp changes in direction (try to turn around mid-jump in a 2D area) are the only issues I can think of regarding Unleashed's controls specifically. The fact that he controls like a car when at high speeds is shared with the rest of the boost games. Whilst not ideal, I'd argue that Unleashed's slippery controls are preferable to the uncomfortably stiff controls of Colours, Generations and Forces. It's difficult to turn Sonic and platform without the homing attack in Unleashed, but it's practically impossible in the others. They overcorrected his slipperiness by making him move like a tank instead. I hate controlling Sonic in all of the boost games except Unleashed HD. But I'm going off on a tangent there... Frontiers Sonic looks like he controls better in a vacuum, but it doesn't have the same implementation of slopes, accelerations and overall physics as SA1 and SA2. And to cap that off, everything that I said previously about level design really undermines any good that there may be in Frontiers controls too. What's the point in a character that controls well if the game keeps taking control away from you?
It was turning mainly, it was a joy to move and turn around in Sonic Adv, not so in Unleashed and it wasn't just when boosting too but like I said in platform heavy sections like Dragon Road, I didn't like how you had to use a different button for the homing attack either. When I see Sonic Frontiers it looks much better control wise and more like Sonic Adv, but that just going off vids granted
Right... Apart from the homing attack button mapping (which is a separate issue), I mentioned the same things as you. But you've still not responded to anything I said about putting Sonic's controls to use in Frontiers. Frontiers let's you turn Sonic, yes. If you put Frontiers Sonic in a empty space then he would probably control alright by the looks of it. Not as well as in the Adventure games and lacking the intricacies therein also. But the game design of Frontiers is committed controlling itself at every possible juncture. Again, what's the point in Sonic controlling better if the game takes control out of your hands? I'm watching footage of Frontiers where Sonic is getting pushed and pulled over over the place by automation. It doesn't matter how well the game controls if it Forces actions on you so the time.
At this point I'm not as harsh on Frontiers as I was when we first saw gameplay, but this is 100% how I feel about it. It's like Sonic Team have built up these bad habits for so long that it's hard for them to break free from this design. Making an Open-Zone Sonic game should've resulted in an active effort to reduce the amount of automated sequences. Instead, they're clutching on to them just as tight as they were before which is pretty sad to me. I wonder how much of this is due to the fact that it's just a 60 person team, compared to most other modern open world games which usually have hundreds of people who can make sure everything goes smoothly. I'm hoping Frontiers turns out well, it'll probably be fine, but I'm not really feeling like this is any kind of major shake up for the series.
Honestly it's hard to make detailed discussion about the controls without playing it. Maybe he feels more responsive at low speed but hard to say without playing it. But it does clearly look very similar to the Boost games. I understand why people would be put off by that. I personally don't mind the Boost controls when you are playing linear levels. But having that control framework in an open world (sorry open zone) layout sounds godawful. I've kept my thoughts mostly to myself, but I really think this game looks dreadful so far. I don't like the aesthetic. I don't usually mind the recycled stages but it clashes horribly with exploration and discovery, even if it might be narratively justified. I think the combat looks stiff, uninteresting and boring. I dont think Sonic should focus on combat anyway. The level design just looks amateurish, basic unorganic stock platforming with lots of automation. On positives, I like the music and the puzzles look...acceptable? And as part of my complaints, I think having Boost controls in an open world is a terrible idea. Not going to keep repeating my points here, because I think people are quite excited for it. I understand why. It's more open, has a more serious story, is doing something new. But I just don't think it looks well made at all. It looks so sloppy. Still might be enjoyable conceptually but that's a big problem for me.
I don't see how you can compare it to the boost games at all, I mean in most of the boost levels you can't even go backwards. Frontiers looks a complete departure IMO
I don't get you, sorry. The boost sections are very linear; you can't even walk backgrounds or in some cases walk freely left or right, like say in a Mario 3D game. Unless I'm missing something, Sonic Frontiers looks more to play like a Mario 3D-style game, rather than the past few Sonic 3D titles.
