Mania seems to build a lot around crazy shenanigans due to the Phantom Ruby. So I don't take what appears on it as being properly canon, just a mix of stuff from fans to fans ^^"
It's been awhile since we got to talk about anything Modern Sonic because of Sonic Origins' release. So uh, does anyone have any fan theories about Sonic Shuffle? Are Maginaryworld and Nightopia connected? Where does Illumina rank in the Sonic gods?
If we wanted to take the cameos at face value from Adventure 1 & 2, NiGHTS is a multimedia franchise that has become big enough on Sonic's world that a pinball attraction and a giant hotel were built in Station Square and Central City respectively. It may or may not have been inspired by Nights Chao. I honestly don't think Maginaryworld is connected because of that.
That's fair, but I believe it's been established that the game takes place in Casinopolis. There might be a stronger case to make with the Lost World DLC if you want to go that route.
Headcanon here. It was all a shared dream, between Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, that explains why Gamma is still alive. It's birdy dream, of electric bot.
I thought Shuffles plot was that they were all in a shared dream. Isn't that what that 1st cutscene talks about (its been decades since I've played Shuffle so i could be wrong) I like the idea that NiGHTs is a series that exists as a series in the Sonic universe, and even the game itself kinda exemplifies that since all of the initial high scores are from Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Amy, and Eggman (obviously Sonic Team wanted to be cute but I like the idea that Sonic and Co played NiGHTs too and those are their scores)
I finally got the time to do this. 12.59 - Sonic Chronicles is non-canon, but is it like Generations Crisis City, where it's just a different unexplored timeline? Or is it just not part of the multiverse the rest of the games exist in at all? - Yeah it's in the cosmic trash can. 27:13 - @BKQA The two worlds are gone. Are the two dimensions gone too? It seems to me that all classic games have been canonized and become the past again. - Can't really comment on that right now... Let me just put it this way: I said too much back when two worlds were dead and nobody knew it yet. So I'm not crossing that line again. 52:59 - If Classic Sonic didn't have that infamous retcon, how would Mighty and the others be introduced? also, Shout out to Anime Matsuri 2022! - (...) From my understanding, SegaSonic Arcade is part of the classic timeline, so it just happens before Mania does. 1:21:00 - is it possible Shadow is secretly mentoring Silver in the future, since he's immortal? - In Silver's future as of 06, Shadow had been defeated and imprisioned in some form of stasis for all time. So not in that timeline. The question is how much of the timeline gets refinangled every time Silver fixes something, and I don't know. I honestly don't know how that works. 1:39:45 - @BKQA hey ian imma ask something, is silver's future exists in the timeline as the main universe? because generations said it's an alt timeline yet rivals, forces prequel comics says otherwise - As far as I'm aware, Silver's future is ~the future~. And it is contingent on whatever happens in Modern Sonic, which is its past.
So there may still be something about the Two Worlds schtick... What a crap, a load of BS from SEGA. And Flynn might've gotten reprimanded at that time. Gotta hope it doesn't affect his current job...
Well, no, he said explicitly here two worlds is dead, but he’s talking about when he said “don’t worry about it” sometime prior to TailsTube debuting. I’d imagine being cautioned for that is pretty reasonable and now he’s taking it in his stride and making sure to be more careful.
@Starduster Ah, ok, he jumped the gun on something SEGA wanted to bring up on TailsTube. Hence him now taking caution on what he answers fans and how he does so. Sure is tough to know relevant stuff and being blocked by corporate meddling... The Triple Trouble 16-bit fangame is a decent attempt at retconning the game's placement on one canon. Having Knuckles as a disguised Metal Sonic, potentially hinting at Chaotix happening right after as well. Just leaving food for thought for those who try hard to place all games into one timeline.
I’d hardly call it executive meddling. As much as I will sing Ian Flynn’s praises as a writer (and he also just seems to be a stellar personality in general), he undercut a project he knew was coming. Granted, I think he made an entirely innocent mistake, but I feel like the language you’re using paints SEGA as being unreasonable here. If that’s unintentional, that’s fine and I’m happy to give you the benefit of the doubt, but I think we ought to be considerate in discourse on this lest it becomes too charged. With regards to TT16-bit, as creative as the game is, I personally don’t take its placement into my headcanon since I’d put the other GG games first, particularly Sonic 2. Also, as far as we’ve seen, only Neo Metal Sonic can take on bio data and use it to transform, and that seems to be an upgrade of the original Sonic CD Metal Sonic. Honestly, I feel like SEGA could’ve avoided headaches with Metal Sonic by not insisting Mania be the latest classic game chronologically. That may cause its own messes, but Ian has said in the past that SEGA only wants there to be one Metal Sonic.
@Starduster I wasn't being exactly mean to SEGA's attitude. But them knowing fans want to clear stuff up about timelines and continuities and still holding intel back feels a bit mean of them. Other companies paid heed to fans' requests and tried to clear up the timelines and such. Not perfect (I guess), but still something. Sonic's still an iconic franchise, with the movies and all that, but SEGA seems to keep sidelining it in some ways.
It's not like Neo Metal Sonic is just new parts put on him. After beating Metal Overlord, he de-transforms back into Metal Sonic. That makes Neo Metal Sonic itself come across as the result of some sort of shapeshifting. So he had to have some shapeshifting abilities prior to being Neo Metal Sonic. Is the ability to copy data necessary for the shapeshifting? Did he need to copy something in order to become Neo Metal Sonic in the first place? Did he lose the copy ability after he de-transformed back into Metal Sonic? Is he still capable of re-transforming into Neo Metal Sonic, or has he lost that ability? These are rhetorical questions I know we don't have the answers to, but the idea that he has to be Neo Metal Sonic to be an imposter raises them. Could be worth asking Ian about. Given that he'd have to have been able to shapeshift prior to becoming Neo Metal Sonic in order to shapeshift into Neo Metal Sonic, I think it's cool that TT-16 bit plays with that. Even if problems then arise, such as why he didn't then use the ability between TT and Heroes. Edit: Apparently in the Sonic Rivals games, he has the ability to copy the signature moves of other characters. Even if the Rivals games are no longer canon, it appears that Metal Sonic just having the ability to copy others, even while not Neo Metal Sonic, was something the games were rolling with.
Ian previously said that he got a note from Sega saying that only Neo Metal Sonic can copy abilities. In #7 of the IDW series, Neo Metal Sonic says that Eggman "decided to upgrade me to this form once again". We see a flashback of Metal Sonic hooked up to some machinery and a screen reading "bio-data upload".
Be fair to them though, it's mot like they were just planning to throw this stuff up in a Tweet, TailsTube is clearly getting considerable effort for social media content. Shit, they didn't have to bring Colleen and the other VA's in to give us this stuff fully voiced, but they are doing anyway and I respect them for that. At any rate, to address the general Metal Sonic question, Pengi's right about the IDW stuff, which is a reliable source imo since of course they're much more closely overseen by SEGA than the Archie stuff and take the games as the basis for their canon and so can't contradict them without that being signed off by SEGA and thus part of the new canon. Metal also disguised himself as an E series robot in I beliiiiiieeeve Sonic Free Riders but we don't know the method used for that due to the way that game's story is presented.
Oh shit, nice. Fair enough. That'd be a lot more smooth if the Rivals games weren't made canon again, but I guess we can just ignore Metal Sonic's copy ability in those games as 'just a gameplay mechanic'.
If Metal Sonic can shapeshift, that could explain how he changed from his Classic design to Modern in Sonic 4 Episode Metal.
Metal is literally the easiest and most logical to explain of all the characters. Eggman simply decided to make Metal taller during repairs to match Sonic's height after he grew between Sonic CD and whatever you think Metal's first canonical modern appearance is. No sense in having his perfect copy be shorter than the really thing. Of course, this is assuming we're taking design changes at face value. Me, I'm of the headcanon that Sonic always had green eyes and just got taller over time, just like his friends. Amy decided to revamp her look and Eggman lost a few pounds due to all the running from Sonic he found himself doing.
