I actually like the IDW Comics more than Archie

The problem isn't that he's flawed, it's that those flaws are never brought up and they never result in any comeuppance on his part. He's an asshole and we're supposed to just accept that, and the characters accept that and let him get away with it. Saving the world is not an excuse, not even in real life.

If you look at any of the "lovable assholes" in American cartoons and comics, the reason they're lovable is because that behavior gets punished, and we like seeing that, especially when they learn from it or try to make up for it. Sonic's behavior in StC just isn't acceptable, especially as a protagonist for children. Compare him to Bart Simpson, and you'll know what I mean.

 

It is amazing that you're using the character that was considered the literal poster boy of what was wrong with America's youth when the show first came out as an example. It's a good example, but I still found it amusing.

I think IDW is OK so far. Has its ups and downs, all-around it's probably the most well-written Sonic thing we've gotten in decades. I still want to read the entire Archie run some day because I do have some fond memories staring at the covers in Mega Collection Plus. Some of those covers were absolutely wicked.

 

I'm trying to get through IDW, man. I have dropped it several times now. I just find it really boring. But I am going to try to catch up so I can see Surge's story. I love her design, and what out of context stuff I have seen about her character. From what I have seen, she in some ways reminds me of Garou, a character from another series I am into.

A while back, after IDW started, I went and read through all of Archie, including the side stuff, through extremely legitimate means. At the time, I was at a point where I kind of hated Sonic in general, so I didn't really care it was nothing like the games. lol

Still, it was rough to get through. Besides the weirdness and occasional cringe, it was just boring. Though there were some characters I kind of liked like Dimitri, I can probably count the issues I actually became invested in on one hand. Off the top of my head, there was the death egg saga and kind of endgame...

...Until Flynn.

Yeah, I got completely sucked in at that point. I can definitely agree with the sentiment of him taking all the craziness of the Archie's world and just making it WORK in stuff that was just simply awesome, even if it still felt a little fanfic-y at times. Like, the issue where that "Limit? I got your LIMIT right here!!!" panel comes from was the most hype thing I have ever seen from Sonic, and I am convinced nothing from this series will ever top it.

And yeah, taking elements from so many different forms of Sonic media and combining it made it feel like a celebration of Sonic. ALL Sonic. And with all the freaking drama, gatekeeping, and (again) drama the fandom engages in which basically boils down to "nOOOoo dAt's NUT rill SONK!?" it just felt good to see. There is also the fact I grew up on stuff like SatAM, AoStH, and Underground about as much as I did stuff like Unleashed, X, and Riders.

As far as that crossover feel, I'm at the point now that I kind of feel the only way I would ever care at all about the game's stories again is if they tried something similar, and did it well.

 

Full examples of what? There's nothing in my post that contradicts anything we've discussed up to now.

Out of every Sonic game I can think of to ever characterize the guy, the only instance that could ever be called a "boring perfect being" is the Sonic of 06, who makes exactly one quip in the first cutscene and is stuck with what might as well be filler dialogue for the entire rest of the game. I don't think it's fair to equate that with...the entire rest of the extended Sonic franchise outside of StC.

Actually, now that I think of it, I suppose Sonic makes a point of needlessly antagonizing Antoine in SatAM and early Archie (Knuckles too actually, he just fights back), and I don't enjoy that either, but I'm also noticing there's no contingent of people justifying and calling for more of it.

I dunno man, it just feels like whenever this topic comes up, the rules change to a system where Sonic is apparently a bad character if he doesn't show unprovoked hostility to people. I feel like if we took those standards outside the realm of StC, none of us would actually like him.

 

This expresses my sentiments exactly. The IDW comics also just lacks, too much, the depth in culture, history, and civilization that Archie has. I know it's fashionable to dis Archie for that very reason, but in my opinion IDW is just too much of a leap in the opposite direction where the background and setting just feels very shallow.

 

To be fair, IDW hasn't had nearly the time to flesh out their world that Archie had - it's not like many of the issues before Endgame (the arc for that set of issues preceding and including #50) had much going on in them, frankly. Though I don't think I'll ever love IDW or its characters as much as I love Archie and its sweeping cast, I think its a little early to be calling IDW's shallow. They're building up a rogues' gallery, expanded cast, and fleshed out setting, slowly but surely (which I'm sure some a lot of the people reading it appreciate, because it allows the authors to give everything its due time in the spotlight).

 

Its the usual bullshit that happens in long-running fanbases; its the version they grew up with, so they're emotionally attached to it and get extremely defensive when its put under scrutiny and think what came after is inferior. Sonic fans do this same song and dance every week.


Look, I'm definitely somebody who prefers a more flawed and more fallible interpretation of Sonic, and STC does, at times, establish Sonic has more going under the surface. But man, I'm sorry, different cultures or not, when a character spends half of their screentime just being an asshole to people, no shit people aren't going to like you. Especially when its your main character, who the audience has to tolerate in literally every issue.

So like yea, while I'm not exactly fond of Sonic losing some of his edge so to speak, a personality where he's just an abrasive dick to people, even for justified reasons, would have absolutely killed Sonic's reputation with an international crowd.

 

I'd say Sonic's justified in his abrasive personality, considering...

Spoiler

...his best friend got turned into his worst enemy, which he later found he caused himself, and he became basically a child soldier fighting a tyrant that was literally executing people for the flimsiest of reasons.

I honestly saw it as Sonic trying to keep people at arms length while he was already trying to deal with his former best friend becoming a despicable tyrant, because he was terrified of another Kintobor happening, as well as fighting a war with no end in sight so high risk of casualty to them as well.

That's what makes Sonic the butt of the joke. He lost everything that day, became a soldier for a potentially permanent war, and it turned out it was all literally by his own hand.

 

Ultimately (in my humble opinion), exaggerated drama just for the sake of it.
Typical western storytelling 101. Like, seriously, was it really that necessary?

 

I dunno, if I already didn't like someone for being a chode to their friends, learning that person also accidentally started a war and chose this as their coping mechanism would only give me less sympathy for them. With everything going on, they choose to act like a petty bitch? At least Sasuke Uchiha was only a dick if someone messed with him, and I hate that guy.

 

Spoiler

He deliberately did it, but the alternative was complete extinction of all life. No lie, the Metallix destroyed all life bar a couple of holdouts, and even then were closing in on them.

Think of it like Batman having to go back in time and make sure the Red Hood fell into the vat and became the Joker, as the alternative was complete extinction of life on Earth. He would not be happy about that.

Still, it's entirely up to you how you consider him. We should probably shift back to talking about IDW and not Sonic the Comic.

 

Sonic the Comic good, people complaining about a british children's book having mean jokes in comedy moments or intentional handful (and it is a handful) of otherwise dramatic low moments for the sake of making the character more human are missing the point. Nothing else to discuss and not even related to IDW vs Archie. Who brought this up?

EDIT: Oh of course it was Dubs who turned things this way

come on dude

 

Yeah you're probably right, but the elegance of Archie is that the comics start off at the end of a huge historical event that led to Robotnik's Empire. a lot of the progression of the plot, especially around issue 50, is just retracing the steps of what happened before the comics. it didn't really rely on a big rogues gallery (even though it had one) as much as it did tying together loose ends and answering questions that are already looming in a reader's head from issue 1. IDW just doesn't draw a reader in like that, all of the mystery is restricted to events that happened extremely recently, more or less, from what I've seen.

Like take Chaos's character for example, he's some kind of ancient deity seeking revenge after Knuckles' 3000 year old ancestors committed an original sin. Where's that sense of history in IDW, of the present being required to reckon with ghosts from the past? IDW needs that extra spice, and a rogues gallery isn't exactly what will fix it.

However it seems like Ian Flynn might even be aware of what I'm talking about, because Sonic Frontiers comes off as sort of a return to Sonic's narrative roots with ancient civilizations and all that. So fingers crossed, Ian Flynn may be using this as an opportunity to weave those aesthetics back into the Sonic comics, which right now is aesthetically too much like Sonic Forces -- a really alien game to the series -- in my opinion.

 

If there's nothing else to discuss, why frame people who do not think this is funny or thinking that it harms the story in some other way as "missing the point"?

 

Gotta say, Archie pre and post Reboot did something very similar. With some Pre-Reboot worldbuilding prior to 50, mainly a lot to do with Downunda in the Tails Miniseries, Athair, the Echidnas, and the Forty Fathoms Freedom Fighters along with showcasing the Sub Bosses. However it wasn't until the world tour arc that they had a chance to really delve into the wider world. Including a map of the world in "Brave New World". The Unleashed adaptation was much the same post-Reboot and the world was richer for it.

Now, they slipped in Final Egg earlier in IDW plus two-worlds being something they'd already tiptoed around I can certainly see a big showcase of things now that they can. GUN coming back. Regions seen in Unleashed becoming possibilities. New regions created if there is a story to drive it forwards. I'm kind of hoping this is the route they take. It's this wider scope that entrenches a franchise by building a wider audiance.

ZuluTolstoy hits on a point. It's the mythology, legacy, and mystery that also kinda hits that home. Curiosity is such a driving factor of the human psyche they'd do well to start seeding a larger narrative and lore. My only concern is that while the games are already such a major font of mysterious societies, and entities, that either the Classic split or lack of Canon answers, ending up leading to some ideas being prohibited. Or Sega just uses the Comic as a vehicle to fill in some blanks.

What I'd give to be a fly on the wall in some of the decision meetings right now. IDW are going to be at some conventions this year, right? We usually get some hints to the direction of things then so it will at least give us an idea.