Sonic Origins Collection - General Thread

I was constantly wondering why there was no way to slow down while collecting all the Time Stones. Time to stick my head into the fridge.

Guess it goes to show that reading the manual is important lol

 

I feel like an idiot. Guess not knowing about this vital feature is why I never liked the CD special stages, lol.

 

Add me to the list of people who never knew about that.

 

I swear holding down on the mega cd sonic was minimal but the taxman build makes it quite a bit slower, maybe its me and my 50hz memory.

 

I've known about it for years and I still have a hard time with them :3

Oh and another tip for CD's Special Stages for those who may not know; when the timer reaches '20', a blue UFO with red bands will appear somewhere near the middle of the stage; hit it and it'll extend the timer for a bit. It'll reappear when the timer reaches 20 yet again, allowing you to be in the special stages indefinitely.

 

Hum...
In Sonic 3 mobile demo- FBZ in level select has a proto icon;
In origins- Sonic 3K also had a icons in level select
Question: does in game files exists early FBZ icon?
Also, this Sonic/Tails/Knuckles sound test icons looks so cool! Sprite artist, who worked for this game- a master of pixels :D

 

After playing all the games again in Classic and Anniversary, I'm going to write a pithy opinion paragraph on each.

I actually think Sonic 1 is the most elegantly designed. It still has some serious flaws in a few of the levels such as the slow blocks in Marble and Spring Yard and the ridiculous traps in Scrap Brain, but it's mostly a very well designed experience. Each level feels distinctive and is most excellently designed. It's the perfect length for the games systems (lives, score, continues). The bosses are largely better than those in the sequels.

Sonic CD plays like Sonic 1 and is more well rounded in the moment to moment gameplay. When it's annoying it's because the game is shooting you off a million miles in another direction instead of killing you. However it also doesn't hit the heights of Green Hill and Star Lignt. The time travel gimmick is also fun and has a lot of attention to detail but is incredibly clumsy in execution.

The first half of Sonic 2 is largely well designed. It has that underwater section in Chemical Plant which is unduly punishing. Unfortunately it also starts an irritating tradition of crushing hazards which get worse in Sonic 3. The game seems to make these hazards catch you out by design, especially in Aquatic Ruin. It's trial and error poor design. The game also kind of falls apart in the second half. However, the first half is largely very enjoyable.

I think Sonic 3 is incredibly annoying. It is obviously very cleverly designed with the multiple routes but it has so many goddamn crushing hazards I think it really lets down the whole experience. The Sonic 3 half is also considerably better than the Sonic and Knuckles half. Upon replaying it I definitely don't think it deserves its status as far superior than the others.

 

Having the frustration removed from Sonic 1 and CD made them a lot more enjoyable experiences - I'm usually just a ball of stress trying to make sure I can get 50 rings to the end of the zone so I can fail out of the special stage and have to try again later.

That being said, I was crushed far more often playing Sonic 1 than 2 or 3. I'm a lifelong fan of Sonic 3 though so I can't imagine not thinking those have superior layouts.

 

Sonic 1 does have crushing hazards but they are mostly telegraphed.

In Marble Zone the platforms are presented to the player well ahead of time because you are slown down and have to make a left before you go to it. You could still be unlucky and run into it I guess but it's designed to slow you down before you run into it.

In Spring Yard the moving blocks are a slow moving platformer challenge. So they don't carch you unaware.

Not claiming thar Sonic 1 doesn't have nonsense. It does. But Sonic 3s crushing hazards seem to be designed to catch you out.

 

There's a part near the end of CNZ2 (at around 8:50 in this video) that's intentionally speedy but there's a pair of barrels that are randomly slapped in there, coming down from the ceiling. As far as I can remember, I never noticed these prior to Origins, but in Origins they've caught me off guard several times now, either suddenly stopping me in my tracks (like they did to TSS in the video) or crushing me before I have any time to react. I mean...maybe I'm just misremembering? It's not just me, right?

 

Those barrels have always been there in the original game so nothing new there

 

I figured they'd always been there, I just feel like if they'd killed me every other time I played through the stage over the course of 28 years, I'd have pretty vivid memories of that. Are they timed differently in Origins or something?

 

I think, someone write here about it:
Collisions was updated, and works different, than in original game

 

Despite only just finding out about the fact that you could hold DOWN to slow down in the Sonic CD Special Stages, they're still far and away my favorite Special Stages in the collection. Like, I've got no problem with the others, but they're a bit of a chore, I'm just doing them as an obligation to get Chaos Emeralds. But with CD, I actually enjoy playing them for their own sake, and trying to get better at them. Unlike Sonic 2's half pipe and Sonic 3's blue spheres, how fast you get through them is strictly determined by how good you are at them, and that makes them more in-line with what I love about Sonic gameplay.

They're still not as good as 3D Blast Saturn, though. That thing had goddamn ROLLING PHYSICS.

 

Yeah, the spotty functionality on these gimmicks is probably tied with my prior gripe for "most annoying quirk of Origins". I don't know, would that be best classified as an unforseen quirk of the engine, a bug, or both?

 

See I actually looked up if this was in any of the other manuals for CD and it wasn't mentioned in either the US or European manuals. It's not mentioned in the 2011 version or in Origins as well. I can't read Japanese so it is good to know that it was written in the original manual at the very least since I was curious if they actually mentioned it or not.

Well it's summer so it must be very refreshing if you do stick your head into a fridge. A freezer would be much more preferable though
Jokes aside, it was only ever mentioned in the Japanese manual so it's not like you would have found out about this anyways. It's astounding this was not written in any of the other manuals including the 2011/Origins versions. It seems like a very important aspect of those special stages to neglect mentioning to the players. The speed strats video for Sonic CD would have been a great opportunity to bring this up.

I only ever found out about this because when I was playing through them I started holding down as I was also turning with either the left or right directions and initially I thought I was imagining the difference in speed when I was doing that. Kind of like a psychological/placebo effect if those are the right words. Then I wanted to take a serious test if it was actually effecting the speed so I ran in a straight line and started holding down and that's when I saw that it actually did effect the way I moved.

It's actually pretty interesting to read all of these replies above as it's good to know that I have taught others about this. Knowing about this really makes theses stages very fun as I have to know where to time whenever I want to slow down to make better turns.

Does this mean that I also taught the great Geek Critique something new about Sonic CD? I just want to take this opportunity to say that I love the videos in your channel. Especially the video where you talk about the replay value that the Classic Sonic games have as you perfectly described everything I thought about for this particular subject of those games.

Yeah the CD special stages have become my favorite ones as well. They are the only ones where I actually keep replaying them in the Time Attack mode too. They actually have a way to influence how you can control Sonic in them unlike Blue Spheres set speed going up or the halfpipe where you can only go left and right. I never played 3D Blast (Genesis or Saturn version) so it is interesting to read that it actually has rolling physics. I've seen videos at the very least and I have to say that I do love the music by Richard Jacques and the low poly model of Sonic in them. I do also love the details of when Sonic is in a full tube that the rings make an echo sound effect and that the later stages have transparent half pipes.

Now that I'm reminded, I do have one last thing I want to mention that I have issue with for the Origins version of CD and that is that I am not able to quit/restart a special stage in time attack so if I messed up a run or don't feel like doing the stage anymore then I am forced to finish it so I can go back.

This wasn't an issue in the 2011 version since there is an option to return to the time attack menu so it is annoying to go through this in Origins.

Well this is certainly a differing opinion but I like seeing it regardless and you do have a point that it does have a lot of crushing hazards. However, I am one of those people who think Sonic 3 is the best one in the Classic series. Then again I do have a bias since I have run through that game so many times that it feels fast paced enough for me that it is enjoyable.

EDIT: Added in additional response from (@Josh)

 

Ok, that more or less clears it up then, thanks. I'd been seeing a surprising number of complaints about crushing deaths, but didn't pay them much mind. I guess there was something to that then.

 

I'd need footage of it killing in Origins to diagnose. From testing, Vanilla 3K seems to always have it moving down on approach, but it's always low enough to stop you. Same in Complete and Air.
I've heard Origins 3K strange physics somehow let you go faster than Vanilla, so I'd theorize you're actually beating the cycle by a bit, enough for it to still be raised higher as you approach.

 

I'm usually Super by then, and sometimes rolling, so you're probably right that I'm going fast enough to beat the cycle. I guess since it's never killed me before Origins (that I can remember) that part just sticks out more now than it always has. If I remember after work, I can try to reproduce it though. I know it's happened 2 or 3 times out of the maybe 6 I've played through Origins S3K.

EDIT: @_Sidle In case you're interested:

I did it via Spin-Dashing and just "running." Reset in between to make sure the cycle reset on the barrels. Looks like it's just Super/Hyper form that makes you fast enough to die there. I didn't die there as normal Sonic (didn't think that was worth recording though).

I guess this probably should have gone in the bug thread, but the topic here at the time was crushing deaths, so....ehh....I dunno. If it needs to be moved though, move it on out.