Sonic's Gameplay Style Debate: Adventure vs. Generations

Big. You're not crazy. What you are is absolutely right.

 

I was actually going to post it, I mostly agree with it (except for Marble Blast Ultra being the best Sonic game).

 

I think Sonic's style of gameplay in Adventure 1 if really polished (By this I mean bugfixing and making the camera not suck and a bit more proper sense of momentum) and expanded upon (And removing the fat of the extra characters and junk) has more potential than what we saw in Generations. Being able to manipulate the spindash to make jumps that seem impossible otherwise and allow you to do stupidly awesome amounts of sequence breaking is an awesome feeling. Sonic's stages in SA1 are my favorite Sonic levels ever to speedrun for that reason alone.

Granted, Generations mechanically speaking is a good deal better than what we saw in Adventure 1. But there's something about Adventure 1's potential I find so interesting. I wish Adventure 2 had simply refined and polished Adventure 1's style instead of completely throwing it away with a game I find inferior all around.


Was I the only one who enjoyed the overworlds of SA1? I'm a bit of a whore for world-building and while they weren't that amazing in that department, it really felt like a step into fleshing out the world of Sonic and if fleshed out could really do wonders in world-building (Majora's Mask-style worldbuilding in a Sonic game would make me sooooooo happy you don't even know). Besides, it takes 20 seconds to get to the next level/boss/cutscene so it never bothered me. But I'm probably weird. :v:

 

I like Generations gameplay much more than SA1, and a little more than SA2. Heroes felt more like a puzzle game than a Sonic game, to me.

If Generations contained more of a challenge, it'd be one of my favorite Sonic games. But it was too easy to finish all the challenges and get all the red rings..still, I often put it on to just play through because it's just that fun.

 

I feel as though this isn't a fair question.

Generations is an incredibly polished and well engineered gameplay experience, refined from several iterations starting with Unleashed.

Sonic Adventure never got the chance to blossom this way, since it was canned after its second iteration and the most recent one (2006) barely counts as a finished development project.

Give me a dev team and the Generations engine and I could possibly show you what a well engineered sonic adventure style gameplay looks like. Until that happens I don't think this is a fair comparison at all.

 

No. No, it's not. They do the same, alright, but there are two differences that make the boost suck. Those are:

a) You can boost while running. Now, all this talk about momentum gameplay is only half-true, since one principle that makes not only Sonic, but platformers in general stand out is that you have to think further than the moment. This means, in Sonic's case, go slower in order to go faster. Thus, having to stop in order to get a higher speed at the end only enhances the sensation of speed. The boost doesn't do that.

b) Still according to that principle, the fact that the boost is "fed" by something is an amazing idea. But rings, even if there's only 10 of them in each stage, are something you were already going to collect anyway. So you don't go out of your way. Besides, I believe it would be for the best if the boost didn't make you invincible.

That said, that's not the main reason Adventure gameplay offers more (it's worse, it's less polished etc., but still has a much better concept). The main reason is that the whole idea of "alternative paths" is not so strict as in Unleashed/Colors/Generations. There is absolutely no interaction between the alternative paths, which makes them all essentially the same. If only you could see what you miised, it would already be a big improvement. But no. It's just separate roads, always straight, some blocks here and there. Sorry, I don't consider that real platforming.

 

I voted Generations, after replaying both Sonic Adventure 2 Battle and Sonic Generations, I just generally had more fun with the gameplay from the modern Sonic section in Generations. Although, I would say I have more fun with the first Adventure than the second since the levels felt abit more open and maybe even more forgiving. But the current Modern Sonic feels very fluid, once you learn the controls and how to use boost effectively it can be very fun, much more fun than when you learn the controls of the Adventure Sonic. Atleast that's what I feel anyways.

 

Starting with sonic adventure you can spindash while running too.

 

As much as I like Generation's gameplay, I can agree with this. I loved the adventure games up until Generations... And I still do, but it's been more relegated to I liked it at the time, so I like it now. Even so, elements of Adventure, if polished up would strengthen modern Sonic gameplay even more. Especially after seeing what you've done with Generations, Dude, I would really like to see these imperfect elements refined and implemented to the Generations format and engine. If I could fund your venture, I would :P

 

I'd disagree with this video in one aspect - Sonic Adventure may have failed in its task to bring 2D Sonic gameplay into three dimensions, but at least it tried. Unleashed, Colours and Generations didn't try at all, and I'd argue all three are far more linear and speed orientated than the Dreamcast games, and thus miss the point of what the series was all about a great deal more.

More modern Sonic games have had to reinvent themselves to survive, and I don't like what they've become. Sonic Adventure tried and failed to keep the style of gameplay I knew and loved, and I find that more admirable, personally.

But at the end of the day, no 3D Sonic game is super-amazing in terms of gameplay. It's the game design that tends to push Adventure above the rest for me.

 

You know, we've got Generations's Dreamcast Era levels to use as comparison. Why don't we just do a straight port, resized for Sonic's increased running speed, of a matching Dreamcast Era level (Adventure to 2006), and compare the Generations level, Adventure port, and original Adventure level? (I'd do it myself, but my computer can't handle it, and I don't know how to do it yet) We'd have the original level and engine to compare, original level with new engine to compare, and new level with new engine to compare. (If we want to get really scientific with it, we could attempt porting at least a level portion from Generations backwards into Adventure to cover all the bases) Then we'd have a straight comparison instead of having to consider the different aspects of the level design only being used with their respective engines.

 

Personally, I prefer the Adventure-style control. Sonic could explore, platform, and still speed across the levels with MUCH more precise control.

Though I do love the Unleashed-style, Sonic feels really floaty when moving an any other direction that straight ahead. Seriously, try turning in the Egg Dragoon boss battle. Cant be done.

In Adventure 1+2, when Sonic would run, it felt like every step he took propelled him forward. When I needed to swerve to the side, I could.

In Unleashed+Generations, he felt like he was kinda skating along, and the sidestep provided more directional control than simply moving the stick.

Plus, when boosting, it feels like your trying to direct a ballistic missile than navigating a vast, sprawling world with skill and precision.

 

Adventure is one of my favorite games, so I pick that, but I still really like Generations. That video actually made me give more respect to the newer Sonic games in terms of the use of side step and boosting, weather that was SEGA's true intention for them to begin with

And regarding the skating feel with Sonic's steps, it might not be physic related, but Adventure made Sonic look like he was actually stepping and moving his feet to the ground, Generations seems like he's just doing an animation as he starts moving. I'm not sure if that's what Full Metal Sonic was getting at, or if it was the physics feel of it, but that's my thought on it

 

It's not like the spindash is the ultimate ability. It just keeps a certain set of possibilities and limitations for the gameplay that still let the focus on the player's progress and, why not, creativity. I'd much rather always have had a non-invincible boost instead of a spindash.

However, I don't think such difference exists. The level design is what defines how you are denied, allowed, encouraged or enforced to play - unless I'm getting the wrong idea. Sonic is just there, with his abilities, and you play around with a set goal. But this is just me, and this is why I believe the boost, giving a completely different meaning to everything in the environment, cripples the game's possibilities. The spindash does have problems, especially so in S3&K, but it's nothing compared to the boost.

EDIT: But I'm missing the point, I think. The reason I prefer Adventure style over Generations style is just the fact that there is a better sense of setting in the former.

 

Ah, I see your point and I'll have to take it, since, indeed, how the character controls makes a difference.

But then we're talking about different ways to perform the same functions. The style, essentially, hasn't changed.

 

Discussing level design isn't relevant because it's something that depends on who developed it... it's supposed to be built properly around the gameplay mechanics. Therefore, arguments like "straight paths, alternate paths that don't interact, etc" are not relevant to the gameplay style in discussion to which is better.

However, it's hard to compare the two because they don't even have the same purpose: the idea in which the control scheme is built around. For example, Generations' scheme is horrible for exploration, since it has no camera controls. That doesn't make it fair to compare it to Adventure's scheme, which is built around exploring and platforming around a small 3D enviroment. The same way it's not fair to compare Adventure's lack of control at high speeds. (Or in this case, it's actually a case of too much control making the player more clumsy to run into something he doesn't want to. Deadzones exist for a reason.)

They're built around two different ideas, and you get clumsy results when the level design isn't built around it. The best example is something someone already mentioned in this thread, SA2's linearity actually fits with Generations more than it fits with Adventure. Try to do the same with Sonic Adventure 1 levels, and you'll get way more terrible results.

I don't think it's fair to compare both styles at all, mostly because they're built around 2 different purposes, and one of them never had a chance to properly improve with more time and polish. The discussion doesn't really come to which gameplay style is "the best", but rather what people prefer and think the games should focus on...

EDIT: I could've probably saved myself this entire post with just a car metaphor. Adventure is the Rally car, Generations is the F1 car. You can't really compare both in which one is best, because they're good at different objectives which they were built for. If the games actually shared the same objective and meta-game, THEN you can compare which one's the best, not which one you prefer.