Design Choices in the Post-Generations Era

I can fully agree with this. I've voiced this opinion as well, and my reasoning is this: what kept a lot of people foaming at the mouth for more Sonic games every single year was the potential for redemption, a Sonic game worth playing again ever since, arguably, Sonic Heroes. Now that the franchise has gotten to a point where it has two (or three, depending on whether you count Unleashed a success) dang good games, and have their game back so to speak, it's time for Sonic Team to take a break and re-assess what they want to do from here. They have a winning formula, what could they do with it to improve it, refine it, what they can get rid of or add to make it better. That takes time to do it right and in a way Sonic fans will want.

I can't believe this is something I want, but I want at least a solid 3 years with no core Sonic titles. None at all. Olympics, racing, sure whatever (this is one place where I disagree with you, at least when it comes to spin-offs, I don't care what side games Sonic's in because generally I don't get around to playing them) but when it comes to the main series, it needs a breather so Sonic Team continues to care about the franchise as they seem to now after Generations, and having game after game cranked out may cause adverse results.

Plus, I don't want to tire of the series. Each game's release should be an event and something doused in hype and excitement, like every almost every Zelda game has, or, within the franchise, Sonic 2 and 3. Sega should not continue to be like EA and run their franchises into the ground like Guitar Hero was and like Call of Duty is on it's way to. A break would be the best choice not only from a development standpoint, but in the way that the market doesn't again be over-saturated with Sonic games.

From a business standpoint, it's a good long-term strategy, at least in my mind

 

Wasn't that exactly what Oshima and Naka were trying to do waaaay back, like in the mid 90's with different games like NiGHTs?

 

But,



Why do people think a break is somehow going to improve the quality of Sonic games?

They are not made by the same developers. It does take about 3 years (according to SEGA) to make a big Sonic game. The last one came out in 2008 by those who made Sonic Generations HD.

The original games were all made yearly yet they somehow managed to be great. Time has nothing to do with this. A break after Sonic 3 and Knuckles never made the games better. A break after Sonic Adventure in 1998 never made the games better.

Also anyone foaming at the mouth for another Sonic Heroes deserves whichever disease it is they have.

 

I agree with the article. I agree with the part about alternate playstyles the most though. Though I have already cleared through Super Mario 3D land, I keep playing the levels because they offer depth in both gameplay and depth in the environment. There are a great number of ways to play and I think Sonic games have suffered from not being to implement this type of thing because of the whole speed and coolness of the character. The scripted sequences are cool, but I compare Modern gameplay as a whole to that of a roller coaster at times.

 

Video gaming seems to be moving towards offering interactive cinematic experiences. It's not something I can say I enjoy that much, which is probably why I retreat back to the older games of my youth. The old games placed you within an enviroment and gave you goal, you were usually free to achieve that goal in any way you wished as long it was within the contraints of the enviroment. Achieving the goal was often entirely optional, although necessary to progress, it wouldn't result in death, you were free to play and explore the given enviroment. Take SOR2, it's levels have only one path and the characters have a limited moveset, yet it is still fun to replay. There are infinite ways of completing a level, even with those limitations. Exploring a simulated, virtual enviroment is fun, regardless of if it is in 2D such as the NES game Uforia, or in 3D such as Bully, both are games that I have spent hours playing, both offer a freely explorable sandbox, where your actions effect the enviroment around you, whether it's throwing a stone or a stink bomb. Scripted events only have one outcome and once you've seen it, it isn't that exciting to see again, Sonic Team need to understand this.

This quote concerns me as the last time Iizuka said something similar, we got Shadow The Hedgehog the game.

From this interview on the wiki, Iizuka said the following.

A quality game attracts a bigger audience, it doesn't need Sonic with a sword or gun, that just repluses tha fans the francise already had.

Iizuka also said this in an interview in 2004, so perhaps he's just talking bollocks as usual.

While there is some sense it what he says, creating a "chain" of Sonic fans the spans the generations, it is never going to happen if every five years or so, the design of the character and his playstyle is changed. IMO Iizuka is a serious obstacle to Sonic's success.

 

No way, he's the one responsible for all the melodramatic crap that helped drive the series into the ground. Ken Pontac and Warren Graff's writing has plenty of room for improvement but I think it works because Sonic stories should be light hearted and kind of silly. Not all the jokes are funny but the bad parts induce nothing more than eye rolling, compared to some of the truly cringeworthy stuff Shiro Maekawa has come up with.

Care to elaborate?

If you're talking about Seaside Hill, you've gotta include this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iQrd7Mr4b0Q

It's a very clever "coloring outside the lines" speedrun which exploits the infinite boost skill and manages to cheat the system in which players are killed for going outside the designated boundaries.

As for my thoughts on the future of modern Sonic gameplay, they've come very close to achieving what they're after, which not everyone here thinks is optimal but I think they should stick with it. To make the ideal modern 3D Sonic game, all they have to do is pool their resources and have the Generations team work on the 3D segments and the Colors team work of the 2D segments (modern not classic). If they could adjust the engine so that Sonic controls as well in 3D as he does in Generations and as well in 2D as he did in Colors (easier midair adjustments and double jump) it could be the smoothest 3D Sonic yet. The 3D segments would be fast and linear, but branched, and the 2D segments would be slower and branched, but with opportunities for backtracking.

 

Indeed it was, but someone clearly told them in 2003-ish that this was a bad idea, because the last truly original game Sonic Team have come up with is Billy Hatcher and the Giant Egg. Since then it's been SONIC SONIC SONIC with a bit of Puyo Puyo sprinkled in just because they got the IP.

 

Sure!

Example:


Sonic is annoying looking and Tails is very dull - both in colour and shape. Each of them are too tall. Their features are not pronounced (Sonic is not spiky enough; Tails is not cute at all). Sonic is stupid and became a 'bro jock'. Tails is a loner (supposed to be an obsessive sidekick) and makes weird statements that are probably poor attempts at jokes.

And while Robotnik is not here, he is too goofy and cartoony. They went overboard with it. His sidekicks are also Rollie Pollie Ollie characters. The Sonic series should not be childish, it should be 'family friendly'. The recent documentary mentioned how Sonic is supposed to be 'mature', but just looks child-like.

 

Who's been making the more recent Phantasy Star games?

 

Just going to be leaving these here.

EDIT: It seems Muteki has beaten me :P

 

Perhaps so, but your post is better. :P

 

Dare I ask why? Propping up the Phantasy Star series (which is older than Sonic) is just as unoriginal. But it does highlight my point somewhat - there was a six-year gap between Phantasy Star IV and Phantasy Star Online, and the latter ended up being a complete refresh of the franchise which received much critical acclaim (much like Sonic Adventure at the time). None of the sequels since have been half as groundbreaking, with the main source of sales being from fans of the series, not the "general public".

I'd say they should take a break from that series too, but in their defense far fewer games are both made and sold in comparison to something like Sonic. And many have been "updates", which is understandable due to the online nature of recent entries.

 

Meh, I don't see those "problems" whatosever. They're just… Sonic and Tails there. I respect yer opinion and all that, but, I can't see myself agreeing.

 

Ya, I'll admit modern Tails is quite derp at times, but the rest of them seem fine. The classic cast kind of fits everything quite well. At the very least, classic Tails is young and cute, unlike modern Tails who looks like some kind of puberty teenager. Modern Sonic isn't too bad though so I have no real complaints on that end.

And so what if Eggman is goofy. His name is Eggman, he's a fat man who looks like an egg. None of the cast is supposed to be too serious, because if they are you end up with Shadow, and we all know how that turned out.

 

Said it before and I'll say it again- the degree of mobility Sonic has now is actually really interesting. The issue is that you've nothing to do with it- you don't need to exploit the game's physics. Classic Sonic was in large part about improvisation- in moving through the environment, there was plenty of room to exploit the mechanics for greater speed and airtime, with rewards in the form of higher paths. There's not nearly enough of that in the present games.

Not just "freedom", but freedom as a reward for excellence. Options expanding exponentially as your play improves.

(Also- am I the only one who'd like to see Sonic games featuring literally no plot at all? Not even an excuse to visit a sequence of levels- no explanation beyond "THIS IS A VOLCANO OR SOMETHING, OR MAYBE A CASTLE. WHATEVER. GO BEAT UP ROBOTS." If there must be cutscenes, they'd purely be comic skits, no connection to an overarching "story", taking inspiration from classic Looney Tunes. Probably wordless!)

 

Ya I'd love to see a take at them not even trying to convey a plot beyond "GO FROM GREENISH ZONE TO FACTORY IN X AMOUNT OF ZONES TO FIGHT FAT GUY" Seriously, fuck Sonic plots. They're all pointless in their own special way.

 

A game without a plot at all would make me quite sad, personally. Call me an idiot, but plots are a big part of what makes Sonic games interesting to me in the first place. =\

 

I think a game with no "story" could work, and possibly be really great, but it'd have to be done right. People are always saying that Sonic 1, 2, 3, and S&K are great and near perfect games, but if you take Robotnik out of those games it's basically just Sonic trying to get to the end of *insert Zone here* We all know Sonic likes to run, and he's chillasfuck, so I think it's entirely possibly for there to be a game where he's just running though levels because he's Sonic or exploring some new place he and Tails flew too.

Anywhoozle, as for post Generations Sonic, no matter what Sonic Team decides to do, someone is gonna bitch, BUT, I think some little changes could lower the number of whiny fanboys/girls. Someone said something about changing Sonic's slide to a roll, that would be one change I think people would like to see. You'd still be able to get under obstacles like normal, and it's classic, something we'll apparently no longer see in the future. Surely it wouldn't be too hard to do something like this. If Sonic is running or moving in general, when you hit B or O on your controller he'll just roll, if he's standing still and you tap B or O multiple times he'll crouch and rev up a Spindash. Sure, a Spindash mapped to one button would anger the one guy who still wants to hold down and tap A, but at least if it was how it's how I mentioned it you'll have have your modern Sonic with your "classic" Spindash.

The Spindash brings me to my next thing change I think should be included in future Sonic games. Sonic should be slowed down a bit. Don't get me wrong, I love how Unleashed, Colo(u)rs, and Generations are so fast, but you should never be able to boost through an entire stage. Slow Sonic down a bit, but don't get rid of the boosting altogether, make us have to work for it. For example, getting half of the Red Rings nets you the ability to boost, and getting the rest gives you a lager boost gauge, and in the mean time we have our kind of over powered Spindash to get us by. If not something like this then keep the boost gauge as small as it as at the start of Generations and make directly getting rings then only thing that refills it. Sonic isn't just about speed, there's platforming in there too.

Now, onward to the levels and schtuff. I think the Dreamcast era of Sonic games did it right, from what I can remember anyways. There was a good amount of platforming and an equal amount of speed sections to match. It's been a while since I've played SA and SA2, but from what I can remember there weren't many parts (if any) where you needed to use the Homing Attack/Light Dash. I've grown to love the Homing Attack over the years, but when they put it into the next Sonic games it should only be used to access higher parts of the level, hitting some enemies and chaining to a higher platform is acceptable, being forced to use it or fall isn't. Take for example the part in modern Green Hill Zone where the Buzz Bombers are lined up near the loop, you don't need to hit them, but you can if you feel like it. The same goes for the Light Dash.

If you take the level design from the speed sections of Generations and throw in the 2D sections of Colo(u)rs I think you'd have a great game. Sonic doesn't need to skate or have a gun or anything else(it's bad enough he's in a game with Mario), all he needs to do is run and jump, albeit with some tweaks in the future games.

 

Spoiler

I see what you did there.