I'm probably on the opposite end of the spectrum from most people here in that I'm perfectly happy with characters like Silver, but would be quite content if Knuckles was never playable again. Silver's gameplay might have been slightly more unorthodox, but beyond his means of attacking, his missions were much the same as Sonic's. Get to the end point, preferably quickly and with plenty of destruction. I'd rather play through every one of Silver's stages from Sonic '06 than go through something like Meteor Herd again. Plus, as a character who'll be directly affected if any of these world-destroying/dominating schemes of Eggman's actually come to pass, he's got a stake in how it ends up, whereas Knuckles is always just "WHOO YEAH SONIC HEROES WHAT'S HAPPENING?"
I think that anyone who wants Knuckles to be back wants his SA2 era self back, (rap music or not) rather than the lameass version we've been getting recently. And I do mean personality wise, not gameplay. Though I will say in Generations he was a little better. ('Thanks for the help Sonic, not that I NEEDED it. ) EDIT: [quotename='A masochist']I'd rather play through every one of Silver's stages from Sonic '06 than go through something like Meteor Herd again.[/quote] You'd rather do the insanely broken desert billiards section again over a somewhat tedious and annoying free roaming low gravity level? Whatever you say pal. (Plus Meteor Herd's music was pretty sweet, in my opinion. )
Personality and story-wise, I don't care that all the characters we have as of the moment appear in newer games, I just want SEGA to write them as some slightly interesting characters instead of making them the same annoying retards nobody likes. I hate how most of them were handled at Sonic Generations, it almost felt like I was back at Sonic Heroes again, except this time, thankfully, I wasn't obligated to listen to them during the stages. Example: Instead of making Big the "Jar Jar Binks of Sonic", they could make him a really shy, gentle giant, who enjoys peaceful activities (like fishing!!) and is usually a pacifist, but can get really tough and rough when he sees friends in danger. Gameplay-wise, SEGA does know by now that mixing up gameplays doesn't quite work when they're vastly different (Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, Sonic Unleashed), and shoehorning a bunch of playable characters while not polishing the gameplay well enough is something that we all know that it doesn't fucking work (Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06), so it is tough. Sonic Generations worked because both Classic and Modern Sonic used the EXACT SAME design and even gameplay to an extent. Not counting that both Sonics use the same level elements and gameplay "base", they work like this: Going fast is important, to finish stages fast, take the higher roads, to go fast, you can boost yourself up (Spindash, Boost), but you have to know when to use it, because it has a cost (Spindash needs to charge up, Boost takes a good chunk of your boost bar to "ignite"), you must avoid obstructions as well as getting hit, because you lose a lot of time by hitting enemies and obstacles (huuuuge loss of time by getting hit by badniks/projectiles, as well as not sliding at the right time). So, the most effective way to make a good game while also making the player play as other characters is by either making those other characters play by the same rules as Sonic, only with different abilities, much like Sonic 3 & Knuckles, or having alternate gameplays that feel the same and converge well with each other, much like Generations did. Just don't make every character play the same and obligate me to clear the same dumb game 4 times like you did with Sonic Heroes. For instance, a good way to make players be able to play as other characters but not obligate the player to do so is to do kinda what Generations did with the skill system. It's a way to make players screw around some more at stages they've already cleared, adding replayability to them, or even tackle new stages with those abilities, but you aren't obligated to use any of the skills to clear the game. Do the same with other characters! Unlock different characters, replay the same stage or play a new stage with a character that plays almost the same, but with different skills that can make some parts easier or even have their own alternative ways that only them can access.
I agree wholeheartedly. Really, Sonic's cool and all, but he's not my favorite Sonic character. I'd much rather be a ninja chameleon or an echidna with spiky fists. If its a completely optional thing, that'd work great. As others have said, I also wouldn't mind being forced to play as them if their gameplay didn't COMPLETELY CHANGE the Sonic formula. Really, I always liked Big (I always kind of thought of him as a 'gentle giant' rather than Jar Jar Binks anyway. Sonic Heroes kind of gave me that impression of him :/ he was just kind of loveable). The only problem with him is that he threw FISHING, the most slow-paced, relaxed sport I can think of, into Sonic, a fast-paced an adventure game that is about getting to the end with the best time possible. It didn't make sense. Maybe make him use his fishing rod like a grapple or something (like that mission with Espio :P), but don't throw fishing in. That's all thats wrong with them, gameplay-wise. Story-wise, I think SEGA did a good job in Generations (aside from the cheesy cutscenes and dialogue). The characters weren't SUPER important to the story and didn't get in the way of it. HOWEVER, I myself preferred their place in games like Sonic Adventure. That's just me. I do still think Sonic's current friends could be unimportant as they were in Generations, but SEGA shouldn't be afraid to incorporate new characters, either. Old characters can exist, just not be very important, perhaps appearing only as unlockables, DLC, whatever, but not being in the story at all. New characters could be important in ONE GAME, but not be shoehorned into the story of newer games. Thats why Shadow's later appearances were so horrible. Had he just been unlockable and not actually in the story at all (being canonically dead, but unlockables don't have to be canon), it would have been a lot better. Instead, they tried to make a lame side-story about how he had lived. I think Silver did a better job then Shadow at this. He was really only important in '06, later on only appearing as either unimportant in the story or only playable in party games. tl;dr the characters don't need to appear in the story as major characters, but they can still be unlockable and playable. Also, new characters should only be important story-wise for their initial appearance, then no longer be important to the story.
Knuckles and has Jazz/Rap music stages with the emerald hunting really should come back. Just...rework the emerald radar thing. The beeping gets annoying after 5 seconds and stays that way.
Yeah I hate the beeping in the hunting stages, really annoys me! And Silver seems like a late-addition and wasn't well thought out! All we know is that he is some future hedgehog, and plus he sounds gay >:L Love Sonic Generations, I got that game and all I could say is: AMAZING! The 2D hubs feel weird at-first, and when I got the game for PC, I had to use the keyboard. I need to get a controller.
You'd rather do the insanely broken desert billiards section again over a somewhat tedious and annoying free roaming low gravity level? Whatever you say pal. (Plus Meteor Herd's music was pretty sweet, in my opinion. ) [/quote] I got through that section in one go, without it taking too much time. Never got the (negative) hype in a game that I can see so many of the faults in. :P
I think the large reason Sonic's supporting cast gets a bad name is because SEGA doesn't know how to make a balance and we get tons of 'creator's pets' that are placed constantly in the spotlight and undermine Sonic (and sometimes other characters like Eggman)'s importance to the series. Nearly every media has this polarizing character that is constantly placed in front of fans whether they like it or not, Shadow, Sally, Chris Thorndyke...they probably play a bigger part in the roots of each media they're in than Sonic himself and force readers to like them. Maybe people would be more welcoming to new characters if they were given some sort of assurance they wouldn't take over the main mythos of the franchise.
I'm not going to comment on gameplay, people with better thoughts on it have spoken already. But role-wise, I think we both need more characters being the Amy in Adventure 2 or Tails in Colours (in the story, but not playable) and more characters overall, as long as they are well-written, defined and useful. For an example, people keep saying Rouge made Nack useless. Now, I know Nack's from the classic games and therefore has no specific personality in him- we get something from the animations and that's it. But looking at him, the design, the animations, the lacking finger, we can clearly conclude that he's sort of a bounty hunter/treasure hunter- he'll do whatever it takes to get the money and finish a job, with no moral or rules. Rouge serves a different role, an opposing role- the thief with a heart, per se, the Arséne Lupin. She wouldn't steal from the poor, she wouldn't kill her own mother, she just wants jewels because jewels are pretty and also works with GUN for a job. She's first and foremost a spy, just a cleptomaniac spy. There's a difference here that could be explored a lot. Imagine a Team Dark game. Team Dark needs to go and capture MacGuffin N#456 for GUN. Thing is, Eggman hired Nack to do the same. Conflict, opposition, battle. There's potential, here. Every single Sonic character so far has potential if written right. Shadow can be the arrogant Sonic- working for GUN more out of a need to obey orders than serving good, a symbol of Control (Chaos Control), of the military, particularly in Sonic Adventure 2 where the subtext was Sonic vs GUN, Good vs the Military/NATO. But yeah, quick list on how I'd do/use the various characters. Spoiler Sonic- Easy-going guy who just wants to have fun and adventures. Can't take much of anything seriously, or rather can, but won't show it. Good friend with Tails, though in a brotherly way he keeps nagging him. Like two good brothers. Tails- Wants to be like Sonic, though as he's grown up he's gained some independence. Also very sarcastic and nagging to Sonic, as "brothers" they are. He's also a technophile. Eggman- I AM THE EGGMAN, I GOT THE MASTER PLAN. Really, what else needs to be said here? SEGA've finally got him right. He must be fun, he must be clownish, he must be dangerous. Knuckles- Hotheaded and stern with a strong sense of Justice and yearning for adventuring, Knuckles is stuck on his Island. Gullible because he doesn't know much of the outside world. Amy- Young girl who loves Sonic, she's gentle and kind, though also physically strong. Very very active, energetic, and comandeering, she's also got a bit of a mystical side- reads the horoscopes, the tarot cards... Metal Sonic- BOOP BEEP BOOP, I'MMA FUCKING ROBOT Nack- Vile bastard who'll do anything and kill anyone as long as the cash is right. No sense of honor or respect. Loves his guns. Mighty and Ray- A parody of the typical SatAM Sonic and Tails relationship that American Sonic fans want. They travel the world and are sweet sickly diabetes-inducing brothers. Chaotix- Vector is the detective with a golden heart who's still obcessed with money, though. Likes eating and girls as well. Bumbling and seemingly idiotic, he DOES have a good mind for deduction. Espio is the lazy ninja- he talks in his ninja-esque way, and uses his ninja-esque abilities, but in the end he's not as serious as he looks. He does have good abilities, but it's more of an act to look cool. Charmy is the silly kid who wants to have fun and loves to watch his cartoons. Big- Calm gentle shy guy who just wants to sleep and live on his own world. Should be more of a calm pothead than a retard like in the games. I may write more when I feel like it :P
I agree with everything you say about the characters, for the most part. So what you're saying is, for example, if Vector gets a mission from someone and tells it to Espio, he might reply with something like "Sounds boring." or something to that nature? Interesting take on his character, but it sounds pretty good. I don't mind him being serious, either. I'd like to add that Shadow should be a pompous, arrogant jerk as he was in Sonic Adventure 2 and kind of in Heroes rather than how he acted in Shadow the Hedgehog. Seriously, they just decided to give him some kind of emo personality thinking he'd be cooler, but I prefer him acting like he thinks he is the Ultimate Life Form. It seems like they're kind of moving in this direction again, though (he was a jerk in Free Riders). Also, Blaze could perhaps be the most serious about everything out of all of the characters. Espio could be as you said, sort of lazy. Shadow isn't really much of a good guy. Blaze, on the other hand, would be serious about protecting the world or whatever you want to take it as. I think Silver needs more building. They could do some interesting things with him. Now that he's voiced by one of my favorite voice-actors, I'd like to see more meat to his character.
Actually, I really never minded Sonic's friends. Except, they start to show the annoying side of the characters. Let's take Shadow as an example: being almost emo, using "cool" vehicles and guns and also like to say damn a lot really was cringeworthy in Shadow the Hedgehog or in Free Riders being the biggest jerk ever. What also annoyed me always is when they had to throw all the characters in the game (Sonic Heroes, Sonic 06) and even FORCE you to play as the other characters (Sonic Adventure - Big's story *shudder*). The only reason to add all the characters are in spin-off games like Sonic Riders. There I don't mind. What the biggest problem would be is they always bring back the friends which fans actually like. For example, lots of "fans" don't say anything about Ray but get angry if Shadow isn't in the game. In the end, I don't want to say which characters should stay, disappear or return. I'm not really a big fanboy of any characters as long as they focus on the main characters Sonic and Eggman. (Tails and Knuckles is also alright)
What about Sonic's slutty friends? Specifically Rouge the Bat, the one asking us to dodge her 'bombs'. Does anyone else find it hard to play the game when her tits bounce at you in 3D? I cannot focus at all and I keep having to change my underwear.
I'm no furry, but I must admit that I was a bit distracted by Rouge when I was 12. Honestly, I think that much boobage doesn't belong in a sonic game.
I want the Big in this shot, drinkin his tea with a total lack of amusement. :v: I would actually want a wise fishermen with "not so fast" thoughts and advisement for Sonic, than a complete retarded. I mean how could they f**k up this character so bad, cars are like toys for him, an umbrella sword, they even had Duke on their hands the freakin Duke.
"Slow down for a minute Sonic. Relax. You can find all sorts of interesting ways to get through the stage." Something like that would be very interesting. Quiet, calm, relaxed... More like a hippy than an idiot. Just loving life and telling Sonic to slow down or something. All in all, Sonic's friends shouldn't be forced into the story of every game so much. Just looking at the amount of Sonic's friends at his birthday in Generations and thinking "Wow, they tried to make ALL of these people important to the story in Sonic '06" (along with Omega, who isn't really Sonic's friend), shows what SEGA was doing wrong. I said what I thought earlier about his friends, but I think I'll elaborate. I'll use Mario as an example, since it does a pretty good job with its characters. In the Mario series, only the really, really important characters like Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi, Bowser, and sometimes Toad, affect the story. Other than them, they may introduce a new character for that game. Said new character will fill their role and then leave, only to appear in party games afterward. Sonic could do something similar: Only have Sonic, Tails, Eggman, and maybe Knuckles appear in the story of later games. Add one character who fills their role and leaves. Said character, along with Sonic's previous friends, could appear only as unlockables or in party games, no longer being forced into the story unnecessarily.
Most of the characters are alright until they talk. Then it just becomes embarrassing . It's embarrassing for me to play the game with others and then cream starts talking like a 3 year old who sucked in helium. Tail's modern voice is fine now, and Sonic's voice is probably the best so far now. But that damn flying thing in Unleashed. The OmoChao in SA2. Cream in anything. And then there's the 'you can do it sonic' 'yay sonic' crap you get at the end of Generations and SA1. Seriously, who enjoys that without being completely embarrassed by the game?
I don't mind that stuff at all. I like Cream and Omochao (Well, 'cept the German Omochao voice. Now THAT ONE's annoying).
I actually play Sonic games that contain voice acting, with headphones simply because it makes me cringe and I would be embarrassed by anyone else hearing it.
