The Supreme Topic of 'Other' Knowledge.

Naka said it was time constraints, Ohshima said the break dancing/band scenes were removed because they exceeded the system's technical capabilities.

 

IIRC, the band was cut from Sonic 1 due to cartridge space. All the graphics were done, they just weren't able to fit them all in the cartridge. It appears that they were still on the table after Sonic 1's release. They appear on a Japan-exclusive calendar, and they also were meant to appear in SEGASonic Bros.

 

So I've got a random question. Does anyone know why Babylon was chosen as the mythical ancient civilization in Sonic Riders? Out of the hundreds of ancient people groups why Babylon? It was a world power so I guess that's something, but it stuck me as strange 20 years ago and it's still weird to me now.

Takashi Yuda said they wanted the Babylon Rogues to be "Air Pirates" so that's why they're birds, but I couldn't find anything about why Babylon specifically.

 

I want to reiterate this is 100% the case. No one's trying to misrepresent themselves; they just don't care to be specific in interviews. There's a strong undercurrent of "games are for kids, I don't care" in the West that doesn't exist in the same form in Japan, so when prompted, there's no distinguishing between things like "Sonic" and "Sonic in America". There's a bunch of other factors, but I'm speaking as politely as possible, because I know some of these people.

PROTIP: If a SoA exec says Sonic, replace with American Sonic

 

There's 0 evidence to suggest the graphics were done or even started to begin with.There is some concept art, and ever-changing reasons for why it was never implemented, whether that's cartridge space or a nebulous "being beyond the console's capabilities". But I don't remember anyone from Sonic Team stating the art was done.
Unless you're citing the 8-bit version's credits, which was developed by a different team that was receiving details and plans after the main game had made changes to those plans.

 

Found the interview.

To correct myself: Graphics of the band were made for Sonic 1, but time constraints led to a last-minute change of plans.

 

I've got an update to a post I made on September 28 2024 about some information that I was looking for on Yuji Naka apparently thinking about titling Sonic Advance originally as Sonic 4.

https://forums.sonicretro.org/index...of-other-knowledge.8815/page-522#post-1080946
The person who made the tweet got back to me some time after this initial post and told me the source was Nintendo Power. From there I searched through scans of that magazine and found the exact issue from where the page came from. It was from January 2002 (Vol. 152)

Here is the cover of that magazine issue:
https://web.archive.org/web/2025031...dia/GmacROXWIAEoKAj?format=jpg&name=4096x4096
Here is the page:
https://web.archive.org/web/2025031...dia/GmacPo8bgAAXVoO?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

Here is the part where Naka mentions Sonic 4:

Game Watch: What was your favorite game project for a Nintendo system and why?
Yuji Naka: Sonic Advance (GBA). It is a 2-D Sonic game, which made me think that I was going to entitle it "Sonic the Hedgehog 4." I guess I succeeded in expressing the fun elements of a 2-D action game even after such a long time.

 

It's a weird question - I'm pretty sure Sonic Advance was the only Nintendo project Sonic Team had put out by that stage. ChuChu Rocket and SA2B being Dreamcast ports.

 

Interesting, I didn't know he'd even said that. I wonder how the community would look back on Sonic Advance if it had been labelled Sonic 4, and whether it would be considered "one of the classics". Probably not I guess, but it is certainly a more worthy candidate than the Sonic 4 we got.

 

Definitely not. As it stands Advance is seen as a nice implementation of the classic formula in handheld form, but nowhere near on the level of the classic games. If it had been called Sonic 4 people would have been harsher on it, especially since it's pretty much a step back from S3K in every area.

 

Nah, common consensus at the time was that it was as close to getting a 2D Sonic 4 as it was going to get. It was a fun handheld adventure that played closer to past Genesis games than the previous handheld titles. Nobody thought it was a new mainline game after Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, of course. The fan communities embraced Sonic Advance and everyone had avatar images based on the game at the time, it was the most love a spin-off title had ever received in the community.

 

That doesn't contradict what I said.

 

I think @Blue Spikeball was saying that Sonic Advance would "definitely not" be regarded as one of the classics even if it was called Sonic 4, in reference to the post before his.

An I understanding that correctly?

 

I don't think I'd be too upset of Sonic Advance was called Sonic 4. We accept Metroid II on the Game Boy as a sequel to the original Metroid on the NES, and there's more new stuff in Advance than many other 2D Sonics. In a world where we weren't getting 2D games on home consoles anymore, continuing the legacy on inherently more limited handhelds seems fair game to me.

The difference between Advance and the actual Sonic 4, is that the latter is terrible in all aspects despite being designed for then-cutting edge video game hardware. Advance has a good reason for its limitations.

...which to be honest aren't really all that limiting. The music is a bit crunchy I suppose, but other than some odd choices with the Chaos Emeralds, we're looking at levels that are more like Sonic 2 than Sonic 3. Which may not be a bad thing - handheld games are typically designed with shorter bursts in mind.


I do think calling it "Sonic Advance" and treating it as its own separate "thing" is the better option though. Least because the numbering system was kind-of messed up with the stand-alone release of Sonic & Knuckles anyway.

 

Aren't there multiple pieces of evidence that Sonic 4 was meant to be an mobile exclusive, but was expanded to consoles mid-development?

 

Hey all.

I've posted before (years ago) about the Sting "Fields of Gold" music video from 1993, which clearly shows a 55-gallon drum emblazoned with the Sega logo (visible at the end of the video). I've wondered about the provenance of this since I was a kid, and in '93 I actually wrote a letter to Sega asking about it (they had no idea, but they sent me a Yuji Naka-autographed poster, which I never really forgave my mother for throwing out at one point.)

A few years back it came to mind again and I managed to get in touch with the video's director, Kevin Godley, but for the life of me I don't remember his response - I think he mentioned that they got it from a prop house and he didn't know any more than that, but now I'm not so sure that's true.

Mysteries like this come back to the surface of my mind from time to time, sometimes years apart, and this time around I tracked down an email address for Andy Elias, the production designer for the video. His response, verbatim:

The search is still on: I want to find what that barrel was used for before this music video, and then I want to make a stupid, ultra-niche, nerdy YouTube video essay about it. My dream scenario would be tracking it down and acquiring it and panning over to it at the end of the video

It feels like the kind of thing that might be in the background of an FMV game, but most of those were Digital Pictures et al and I've scrubbed through most of them (released 1994 and earlier) and found nothing. Seems like it'd be more likely set dressing on a video of some sort, maybe a promo, maybe something for a trade show, maybe even a booth prop at a trade show. Could also be from a print ad, or even something that was made but never used.

It'll probably take the rest of my life to figure it out at the rate I'm able to look into it, but if any of you happen to spot a dark-colored, 55-gallon barrel with an angled Sega logo on it in some 90s footage or photography, please let me know.

 

Kind of.

I'm saying that if it was called Sonic 4 it would be held to higher standards, and thus would be judged more harshly.

What we got was fine for a handheld spin-off, but it's not on par with the MD games. In a lot of ways it's a regression - it's shorter, has a more basic (basically non-existant) plot, doesn't really introduce any innovations, and is missing things like Super forms in regular levels, act transitions, mini-bosses, bonus stages, powerups, character-exclusive paths and so on.

Even in level design it's a regression from S3K, with shorter and less intricate layouts that treat characters-specific abilities as an afterthought, and are considerably slower. In fact I recall the lack of speed being a common complaint.

 

I've just watched the video. That barrel with "SEGA" written on it appears at 3:27. IntereSTING...


Back in 2017, I asked Naoto Ohshima about his musical preferences. He mentioned Sting.
Gordon Sumner got that nickname because he had been wearing a T-Shirt with black and yellow stripes (bee, sting, you get it).
It's funny that Eggman had a bee-like appearance in an early concept art.

That's a coincidence, though. What's not a coincidence is that Madonna was inspired by real Madonna. And Sonic's shoes are based on Michael Jackson's boots from the "BAD" era.

 

I get the feeling your best bet is either Operation Game Gear that took place on April 5th, 1991 or the Sonic 2 launch party in 1992. Both taking place in New York.

Maybe that's how they had some Sega branded props.

At first I thought it could've been featured in the Sega Star Kids Challenge at Universal Studios but I don't remember seeing those there.

Could also be the many commercials during that era, especially the Welcome to the Next Level commercials and the various ones where kids are playing inside a warehouse.

 

What I'm getting from this is that since you personally don't like the game, it's not valid to say that the community really enjoyed it? That if it had been called Sonic 4, then suddenly everyone would feel the same way about it as you do? That's not a take I can agree with, you've just got to accept that not everyone feels the same way as you do.