Sonic X Shadow Generations thread, movie level out now

I also think Kirk sounds fine here. And he's not even my favorite Shadow V.A.

 

While I think his VOICE sounds fine, I would definitely agree that his acting was not. He just sounds...normal, during one of the most traumatic events in his life. There's like no noticeable emotion there, it doesn't do any justice in selling the scene. I think people forget that voice acting is more than just putting on a voice; acting is an integral part of it...There's a reason I'm not a voice actor!

 

I think the voice direction in this short sounds a bit silly, but that's exactly what I expect out of Sonic voice acting because that's how it's almost always been. And really, at this point, it wouldn't feel much like "Sonic" to me if they did it any other way. Frontiers taught me that.

 

It's kind of funny that people aren't taking to this performance when in the panel itself Kirk said right after Iizuka gave his own explanation of shadow's character "oh... I wish I could have sat down with Iizuka before!"

 

I think this is it honestly. I don't think there's anything you can criticise Thornton for that wasn't already present with Griffith. We now found out that Shadow was inspired by American comic anti-heroes like Spawn and I think this is quite revealing. You look at guys like Spawn, Kaine Parker, Batman, etc. and they're these really dark, brooding guys who are very much stoic. Meanwhile, Shadow's image in Japan is probably a lot more from the stock of their "dark heroes", folks like Vegeta, Sasuke and Sandalphon (granted I know the latter two came after Shadow but I think the vibe is similar) - these guys are more just grumps than anything else but do get lighter material to play with too. So yeah, I very much think it is a byproduct of the perception SEGA wants to push for the character in English markets, and one I hope changes as folks like Ian adjust what Shadow is in the context of the ire towards his recent characterisation.

 

While Studiopolis probably could've done better to give the actors an idea of what the characters are like, the actor carries at least some responsibility to do their own research and come up with their own ideas. Acting theory is a thing. Y'know, if you get the role of Sherlock Holmes, you're probably going to read at least a few stories, maybe even watch some of the other adaptations, to get an idea of who he is, and then draw from your own experience afterwards. Hell, nowadays you have dozens of Youtube video essays at your disposal if you need someone to tell you what a character is all about.

Now, I'm not saying Kirk didn't do any research...but that comment does seem to imply that, across the 13 years he's been voicing this character, he never bothered to consult anybody or anything. Or maybe he did consult somebody, but was asking either the wrong person or the wrong questions.

 

Voice actors have multiple projects every year, and it's nowhere near a respected profession in the United States, especially if you look at @KaiGCS comment how "it's always bad".

I wouldn't exactly be shocked if none of the VA's really take it AS seriously as the fans do. This is not a knock against them, just an observation.

Even Jason Griffith, as beloved as he is by a section of the fanbase, opted to just have his own interpretation of Shadow.


Now it should be noted that they are voice ACTORS, not imitators. Johnny Yong Bosch mentioned that, they are paid to interpret the work and voice act based on that interpretation, not merely just emulate another voice actor.

 

I didn't say it was "always bad". I said it was always a bit silly. But I meant that as a compliment. It's corny, it's exaggerated, it's over-the-top, it doesn't sound "realistic," but it's not trying to, and I wouldn't want it any other way.

 

Similarly, I think this is very much reflective of how SEGA (possibly SoA in particular but I'm not sure) sees the Sonic franchise, or has done up until recently. It's a big moneymaker, sure, but a lot of what was put out between 2006 and Frontiers I think could be said to indicate that the property wasn't being taken seriously in of itself as a piece of art/media. Frontiers is, I think, the first time in a long time that there's really been weight behind the games and attempt to really build up a cultural cache again. I don't remember when exactly this was, but I think it's pretty casually quoted at this point that RCS' gig as Sonic amounts to beer money for him.

This isn't to say that the actors are unprofessional, nor that it isn't dismaying that they don't feel the impetus to interrogate the characters they're playing, but Sonic just isn't a cultural institution the same way something like Doctor Who is in the UK, where actors like Matt Smith and Ncuti Gatwa can get that role as casual or non-fans but then go back and do heavy research on it because they appreciate the importance of it within the zeitgeist. Sonic just doesn't carry that kind of significance, and I wouldn't be surprised if a lot of the people working on the voice direction/acting side of it don't see it as being that deep. Granted, I have hope that this is changing. Certainly with the creation of stuff like the lore team and getting Ian Flynn in the writing chair while also pursuing more serious stories indicates that more care is being given to depicting the setting of the property, so I hope this is an area where the voice acting/direction catches up, as I really don't have any reason to doubt that the current cast are capable of delivering this. All of this is to say that, while it is in a way disappointing that it's taken this long for Kirk to take that introspection towards Shadow, I don't think it's surprising given the industry and the IP, and ultimately I think it's better late than never.

 

Interesting that you say that about the English voice acting, because it's often Japanese voice acting that is "over-the-top" and not "realistic". Which then gets misinterpreted by non-Japanese-speaking audiences as "better".

 

And that's a good thing. I mean, who's gonna replace Kirk?

 

My main point is that voice acting in English isn't really taken seriously as an art form compared to Japan, I was just using it as an example.


Combined that with the fact that many people don't take the narrative of Sonic seriously, I'm not shocked the English dub is more.... "exaggerated" in a sense?

For better or worse, Japan tends to take this shit more seriously unless it's specifically a gag series.

I've read many interviews from Japanese voice actors that describe how they get in-character and the emotional connections they develop with the characters they voice.

It's not necessarily "better", but I can understand why people can get way more emotionally invested, especially if the English actors are mostly phoning it in.

More to the point, Shadow himself hasn't had a significant role in anything since 2006. He's been a glorified cameo for most of that time.

I'm not really surprised Kirk never understood the character because he was never really treated all that seriously when he started voicing him.

So naturally when they remembered that Shadow is actually supposed to be a somewhat emotionally complex character, it's a bit of a shock.

 

I'm not disputing that voice acting in Japan is taken more seriously. I'm saying that their performances, especially in anime, are exaggerated. In other words, they're "overacting". This is in contrast to English voice acting, where there's more attention to making characters sound realistic.

For example, in Japanese a character will shout "NOOO!" at the top of their lungs, while in English they'll shout more like a normal person.

 

Fiction is an exaggerated medium, so naturally the performances are going to match that. Why would animated characters sound like real people?

I think that's where a lot of the disconnect comes from; some English actors tend to feel like they're reading a script (which is understandable because a lot of it is produced without context) whereas I can't ever recall that being the case in JP.


This is why things like Sonic Boom tend to be better acted, because the series is crafted around the actor's performances, as opposed to the other way around.

 

(trash please)

 

Meanwhile, UK gives us Xenoblade Chronicles. I'll go with the least spoiler-y one.

 

Because they're meant to portray people like you and me, and if they don't it's harder to relate to them.

Movies are also fiction, yet we praise good realistic acting.

 

No we don't.

Realism in movies is a set of conventions constructed over a hundred years and deals with film as a medium that has a specific way to narrate stories. It's all made to suspend disbelief based on making you accept its conventions, not to mirror reality. The very first thing a scriptwriter will tell you about dialogue is that for it to feel "real" it has to be absolutely nothing like how people actually talk, for example.

Anime is the same thing-- it's not drawn, animated or voiced to emulate reality because of a very practical matter: animation is really fucking hard and, by being limited to 24 frames per second (and that's very inconsistent in anime, which uses still shots a lot), it never had a chance. So it developed a set of conventions to suspend your disbelief, which people accept more easily the more they grow accustomed to it.

Yes, that's easier to do in a language we don't speak, especially as a native, but it doesn't mean a more subdued way to express emotion is more realistic, especially if it escapes the conventions the rest of the medium is used to.

 

I actually felt the cringe part was some of the dialogue. Why would Shadow think he could be a medicinal cure by being the “ultimate life form?” He’s not an antidote. I get what the line is trying to convey, but ehhhh wrong words.

 

Nobody is asking for Sonic to have "realistic" acting. It's not Smiling Friends. At the same time, the emotions need to be believable and palpable to the audience, just like any good action cartoon. As exaggerative as the acting in Avatar sounds, I never once thought the actors failed to deliver on serious character development.