Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: Sonic Mania: Hacking Discussion - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

Jump to content

Hey there, Guest!  (Log In · Register) Help
  • 43 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last ►
    Locked
    Locked Forum

Sonic Mania: Hacking Discussion Will update when news comes out

#1 User is offline Chimera 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 11:49 AM

  • I'm not a furry.
  • Posts: 1247
  • Joined: 04-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Castlevania prettyness
  • Wiki edits:5
ITS FINALLY HERE!

Time to start cracking it :specialed:/>/>


--


So Mania's finally out, the game by the fans, for the fans. This game's built on the Retro Engine, just like the 1, 2, and CD ports. However, unlike those games, Mania has a ton of improvements, features built with the PC platform in mind, and new content. Along with that, it's a new entry to the "classic style" series of games. It's the first time we have a legitimate full game, a new experience in the series, styled after the Genesis originals, SINCE the originals.

And we have incentive to mod it.


--


WHAT WE CURRENTLY KNOW:



Extraction

~90% of files extracted thanks to TPot.
Sprites are not the raw files; TPot converted them from their originals using the level palettes.
Some files are missing, as his extraction method requires rsdkv5_extract to work, which requires some tedious work in finding filenames etc. Likely the tool doesn't work 100% yet either.

More info:
Spoiler



Compression

The RSDK format isn't yet fully understood, so no file replacement / packing is possible at this time. This post will be updated as information comes up.



Sprites

Sprite modification is not currently possible, since no method of replacing in-game content is yet discovered or functional. However...

Spoiler




Save Data

Work has been done on the save file format by codenamegamma. I'll link to his forum post, and quote what he's found here since he explains his findings better than I possibly could.

Spoiler



MISC

In codenamegamma's post, he also outlines how character loading can be forced, to legitimately have 2 sonics, 2 tails,' and... well 2 knuckles is already a thing, though other partner combinations like knuckles + sonic/tails and tails + sonic are possible through this method.

Spoiler

This post has been edited by Chimera: 31 August 2017 - 02:23 AM

#2 User is offline Fenrir 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 11:58 AM

  • Eh.
  • Posts: 270
  • Joined: 09-April 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
Maybe an existing member of this community who just so happened to make this game possible can come in and tell us how to break open his own creation.

...

Probably not. :v:

#3 User is offline Hamzawesome 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:10 PM

  • Posts: 18
  • Joined: 11-May 13
  • Gender:Male
I'm really excited to see the mods for this game. It'll probably take a while, but still, it'll be great to see.

#4 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:14 PM

  • Posts: 11328
  • Joined: 21-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Working on my art!
  • Wiki edits:10
Stealth mentioned on his stream that Sonic Mania runs on Retro Engine version 5. As a frame of reference, Sonic CD ran on version 3 while Sonic 1 and 2 ran on version 4. I'm assuming Retro Sonic was version 1 and 2. Stealth also mentioned that a lot of things had to be rebuilt for version 5, so preexisting gimmicks from Sonic 1 and 2 for example could not just be reused. It's possible that RSDK extractor no longer works due to the updates.

Speaking of which I feel like Stealth, Taxman, and Slingerland have transcended to a new rank of membership. They should be Mania members :specialed:

While I'm here though, mod wishlist (this isn't a list of demands or anything, it's just for fun. Don't shoot me powers at be)!

- Disable Super Music
- Enable Super Peelout, Insta Shield, and & Knuckles mode for save files
- Add more save files
- Alternate dark blue palette for Sonic
- Allow Tails to Follow Knuckles
- Playable Metal Sonic
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: 29 August 2017 - 12:18 PM

#5 User is offline Spanner 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:20 PM

  • The Tool
  • Posts: 3149
  • Joined: 02-June 07
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Project:Sonic Hacking Contest
  • Wiki edits:2,193
Would be very interesting if mods happened for this but I haven't really seen anything for Sonic CD be really released or submitted to the Hacking Contest.

#6 User is offline Fenrir 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:21 PM

  • Eh.
  • Posts: 270
  • Joined: 09-April 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado

View PostDark Sonic, on 29 August 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

- Playable Metal Sonic

Someone sound the Lone Devil alarm. :specialed:

#7 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:23 PM

  • Posts: 11328
  • Joined: 21-April 06
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Working on my art!
  • Wiki edits:10

View PostFenrir, on 29 August 2017 - 12:21 PM, said:

View PostDark Sonic, on 29 August 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

- Playable Metal Sonic

Someone sound the Lone Devil alarm. :specialed:

Right? And now he has some new sprites to play with.

Oh and how could I forget. I'm hoping someone figures out some kinda netplay setup with this for some 2P fun.
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: 29 August 2017 - 12:31 PM

#8 User is offline Arcaden 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 12:48 PM

  • Posts: 10
  • Joined: 22-August 17
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Sonic AMV: Boss - Big Arms
I've just heard somewhere that the game uses Denuvo DRM (I believe this link is the proof). I'm not too familiar with this, what will this mean for possible Sonic Mania mods?

#9 User is offline stescoedw 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:13 PM

  • Posts: 82
  • Joined: 26-February 14
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:College

View PostChimera, on 29 August 2017 - 11:49 AM, said:

ITS FINALLY HERE!

Time to start cracking it :specialed:/>


--


So Mania's finally out, the game by the fans, for the fans. Unlike 1 and 2, which were bound to iOS systems, this game's available on all PC platforms, and *isn't* a lesser-understood version of the game compared to what the community is used to. While Tax's ports were objectively better quality in terms of performance, aspect ratio, and content, the modding community had no reason to dig into those games outside of revealing hidden content. With CD, while the game was on PC, it was still simply a PC port of Sonic CD which has already been modded in the past and documented well, even porting over the Sonic 2 spindash much like Tax did in the official re-release. Considering the quality of the port, there was also no reason to dig into it if you could just load CD in Kega/Gens/etc and get a similar experience, better in some ways worse in others.

This time, there's a legitimate incentive to mod the game.




I'm not the best with cracking esoteric formats but I'll at least be able to compile information as it comes into this topic for reader's convenience. Currently, all that I personally know is that the game stores data in .RSDK format. This, presumably "RetroSDK" format, does already have a topic on extraction, however from my testing the old unpacker doesn't seem to work; when trying to unpack the game data, the program returns "invalid name length." it's likely Tax updated his formats, meaning some updating is required for the program.

Along with that, it's been stated that an issue with the previous program has been recompiling to a propper .rsdk format to then be read by the game, though that's likely outdated info and I apologize if that's the case. Still, extraction, once it becomes known, should be relatively simple by comparison; recompiling may be a serious problem depending on how Tax's format has self-check methods, or even if there's a form of MD5 recognition or similar within the executable's code. Wouldn't put it past him, but that'd be a pain to deal with :E (it also wouldn't seem to be that patch-friendly, so I'm not sure he'd be that extreme, though considering the small weight of the game it's not that unlikely).



I know I didn't contribute anything past making the thread and saying "this doesn't work," but I hope at the very least this thread existing as early as it does inspires some of the more qualified people, when they're done playing the game of course, to start taking a dive into the game code. I'll give it my own shot after this and some work, but in the meantime, let's enjoy Mania as-is, and maybe get inspired with what we'd add to the game when given the chance~


Chimera is it possible for you guys to do backwards compatible modding like adding the drop dash or getting Knuckles as a playable character in Sonic CD?

#10 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:49 PM

  • Substitute Meerkovo IT Chief
  • Posts: 16821
  • Joined: 12-January 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Berkshire, England
  • Project:VGDB
  • Wiki edits:3,204
You can all stop before you start - this is not a topic for "OMG MOD ME THIS INTO MANIA PLOX".

#11 User is offline Qjimbo 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:56 PM

  • Your friendly neighbourhood lemming.
  • Posts: 4435
  • Joined: 17-February 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver
  • Wiki edits:69
I was able to extract some of the files from the Data.rsdk with the current version of retrun-sonic (http://unhaut.x10host.com/retrun/) using this command:
retrun x Data.rsdk -3

However it seems all the images are corrupt and only 5 of the OGG music tracks expanded. Not sure if there is another approach (not super familiar with the current status of RSDK extraction).

Edit: Vector Harbor over at ffshrine used Xripper (http://www.zeus-soft...wnloads/xripper) to extract all the OGG music files from the archive. Obviously doesn't help much for modding since you can't re-pack it, but still neat.
This post has been edited by Qjimbo: 29 August 2017 - 02:10 PM

#12 User is offline Fenrir 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 01:56 PM

  • Eh.
  • Posts: 270
  • Joined: 09-April 16
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Colorado
I recall someone mentioning a few weeks back in the Mania Spoilers topic that Sonic CD 2011 modding had some interesting/exciting things going on behind the scenes. I'd imagine/hope they'll be able to apply these "Things" to Mania, whatever they may be. Anyone know anything about that, or was it just hot air?
This post has been edited by Fenrir: 29 August 2017 - 01:57 PM

#13 User is offline Blue Spikeball 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 02:03 PM

  • Posts: 326
  • Joined: 29-October 16
  • Gender:Male

View PostOverlord, on 29 August 2017 - 01:49 PM, said:

You can all stop before you start - this is not a topic for "OMG MOD ME THIS INTO MANIA PLOX".

Can someone please make a Knuckles in Sonic Mania hack? I know he's already in the game, but you just can't have too much Knuckles :v:

Seriously though, we could try requesting an official mod loader and modding tools as a future update. Many PC games have it, and Sega did add support for ROM hacks for the Steam versions of the classic games a while back, so chances are they would be willing to add it if people requested it. Not that official support would be necessary for a Mania modding scene to surface, but it would probably speed up its development.
This post has been edited by Blue Spikeball: 29 August 2017 - 02:24 PM

#14 User is offline Chimera 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:12 PM

  • I'm not a furry.
  • Posts: 1247
  • Joined: 04-October 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Castlevania prettyness
  • Wiki edits:5
The problem with a mod loader is that such a thing would be opening a whole can of worms I don't think SEGA's prepared for. The ROM hacking scene made a plethora of obvious, excellent content that SEGA could either ignore or use as part of a marketing shtick that would get their arcade thing more attention, so it made a bit of sense, I spose, for them to allow loading hacks of their games that people purchased, as a bit of "spice" to games that, outside of re-release licences, have pretty much become abandonware. The thing to understand is that those Genesis games are OLD. Like not just "beginning of the series" old, more "you were paying $60 for this thing" old. Mania isn't in the same category; it's a new sonic game that was released mostly last week and, on the platform we want to mod it on, today. I wouldn't doubt if, in SEGA's eyes, greenlighting Mania was an incredibly bold and risky move; in many ways it was, but it paid off and was legitimately great of them to do, but it was still bold. They're a company in a culture that usually distances themselves from mods (hello nintendo). Giving a neat way to load mods that *already exist* is one thing; a mod loader to their most recent, most anticipated game is pushing it.

Which is why this...

View PostFenrir, on 29 August 2017 - 11:58 AM, said:

Maybe an existing member of this community who just so happened to make this game possible can come in and tell us how to break open his own creation


..is probably very not legal :v:


View PostDark Sonic, on 29 August 2017 - 12:14 PM, said:

Stealth mentioned on his stream that Sonic Mania runs on Retro Engine version 5. As a frame of reference, Sonic CD ran on version 3 while Sonic 1 and 2 ran on version 4. I'm assuming Retro Sonic was version 1 and 2. Stealth also mentioned that a lot of things had to be rebuilt for version 5, so preexisting gimmicks from Sonic 1 and 2 for example could not just be reused. It's possible that RSDK extractor no longer works due to the updates.


This would explain a few things. Was assuming 1 and 2 ran on a more updated build than CD, and since no one gave a toss about the iOS only ports because they'd be more work than what it's worth to dive into, id imagine no one other than like probably 2 passionate guys actually took a crack at the midpoint between CD and Mania. Meaning we don't even have a midway point of reference lol

From what it sounds, some extraction's been successful but nothing outside of simple methods to rip the soundtrack, which to be fair is pretty good regardless. Anyone know of an upload of the OST's oggs? If that's not allowed on Retro, ignore this request; more interested in documenting an example of mod / "hacking" progress :p

So seems what we have to wait for now is an advancement off the RSDK format's understanding, which, if Stealth saying some stuff had to be worked from the ground up is true, could mean even tweaks to the extractor's source could yield negative. Ah well, it's how it's gotta be I guess.

#15 User is offline Qjimbo 

Posted 29 August 2017 - 03:28 PM

  • Your friendly neighbourhood lemming.
  • Posts: 4435
  • Joined: 17-February 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Vancouver
  • Wiki edits:69

View PostChimera, on 29 August 2017 - 03:12 PM, said:

From what it sounds, some extraction's been successful but nothing outside of simple methods to rip the soundtrack, which to be fair is pretty good regardless. Anyone know of an upload of the OST's oggs? If that's not allowed on Retro, ignore this request; more interested in documenting an example of mod / "hacking" progress :p

This is the thread over at ffshrine: http://forums.ffshri...l=1#post3651080
You have to register an account to see the links, I won't repost them here due to the rules.

  • 43 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • Last ►
    Locked
    Locked Forum

3 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 3 guests, 0 anonymous users