[Yash]

Xilla, on 28 May 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

E-122-Psi, on 26 May 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

I think it's largely hype backlash. There's been WAY too many times it's been hyped as the superior rendition of Sonic and it fan base has a few too many trolls who talk derogatory about the games and anything else because of it (they are a vocal minority however, trust me), leading many to get sick of it and punctuate it's flaws, even if some may only mean it in a 'it's good but not THAT good' way. If it wasn't for this it likely would be treated the same as the other cartoons; ie. viewed as flawed, but having it's fair praise.

Oh yes, one certain individual with a Japanese-sounding name (funnily enough) comes to mind. Trolled everywhere & banned everywhere due to her insistence that SatAM was the real Sonic canon (never taking no for an answer when you told her that there's no official "canon" at all). Sonic the Comic was "non-canon" because there wasn't a cartoon made from it, AoStH was "non-canon" because there wasn't a comic made from it, The games were "non-canon" because it didn't have SatAM characters in it. You named it, she shat all over it. Also had multple accounts to back her up!

Totally agree though, SatAM was waaaaay overhyped before it got a DVD release. I think the phrase "the memory cheats" comes to mind and once the nostalgia glasses were taken off, people realised that it just wasn't as good as all those "Freedom Fighters" fanpages and Sonic HQ made it out to be. I've always said you could replace Sonic with Zippo The Cheetah" and Robotnik with "Professor Horrible" and you'd have the exact same show.

I dunno, I marathoned the series recently and while there's definitely a cheese factor and it's so far removed from the video games that I would never consider it the definitive Sonic canon, I thought it held up pretty well. Definitely in the top tier of cartoons from its era. And when you consider how atrocious every other video game cartoon from DiC was (the Mario cartoons, Zelda, Captain N, even AoSTH) it's even more impressive that it's even any good.

[Polish Pete]

Yash, on 29 May 2015 - 09:53 AM, said:

Xilla, on 28 May 2015 - 02:09 PM, said:

E-122-Psi, on 26 May 2015 - 06:50 PM, said:

I think it's largely hype backlash. There's been WAY too many times it's been hyped as the superior rendition of Sonic and it fan base has a few too many trolls who talk derogatory about the games and anything else because of it (they are a vocal minority however, trust me), leading many to get sick of it and punctuate it's flaws, even if some may only mean it in a 'it's good but not THAT good' way. If it wasn't for this it likely would be treated the same as the other cartoons; ie. viewed as flawed, but having it's fair praise.

Oh yes, one certain individual with a Japanese-sounding name (funnily enough) comes to mind. Trolled everywhere & banned everywhere due to her insistence that SatAM was the real Sonic canon (never taking no for an answer when you told her that there's no official "canon" at all). Sonic the Comic was "non-canon" because there wasn't a cartoon made from it, AoStH was "non-canon" because there wasn't a comic made from it, The games were "non-canon" because it didn't have SatAM characters in it. You named it, she shat all over it. Also had multple accounts to back her up!

Totally agree though, SatAM was waaaaay overhyped before it got a DVD release. I think the phrase "the memory cheats" comes to mind and once the nostalgia glasses were taken off, people realised that it just wasn't as good as all those "Freedom Fighters" fanpages and Sonic HQ made it out to be. I've always said you could replace Sonic with Zippo The Cheetah" and Robotnik with "Professor Horrible" and you'd have the exact same show.

I dunno, I marathoned the series recently and while there's definitely a cheese factor and it's so far removed from the video games that I would never consider it the definitive Sonic canon, I thought it held up pretty well. Definitely in the top tier of cartoons from its era. And when you consider how atrocious every other video game cartoon from DiC was (the Mario cartoons, Zelda, Captain N, even AoSTH) it's even more impressive that it's even any good.

I agree that SatAM is a great show and still holds up thanks to its writing, but I also can't help but find it insulting how you call AoStH atrocious. Sure, it's no Shakespeare but at least it can be fun, have heart-warming moments and a lot of references and nods to the games. Not to mention, it's heavily inspired by Looney Tunes, Felix the Cat and the Fleischer cartoons, which explains its unique style and wacky nature. For me both shows are equally good and fun to watch and I really wish people would stop hating one show in favor of another, unless the said show has a good reason to be bad, like Underground, X and even Christmas Blast (and trust me, those have their reason to be considered bad).

This post has been edited by Polish Pete: 29 May 2015 - 01:22 PM

[ICEknight]

I don't think many people in Spain even remembers that Sonic cartoon, to be honest... I have a feeling that its fandom may be mostly US-centric.


AoSTH on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people who was remotely familiar with videogames at that time remembers those.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 29 May 2015 - 05:55 PM

[Xilla]

ICEknight, on 29 May 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

I don't think many people in Spain even remembers that Sonic cartoon, to be honest... I have a feeling that its fandom may be mostly US-centric.


AoSTH on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people who was remotely familiar with videogames at that time remembers those.

Same in the UK really, SatAM was hardly (if ever) advertised and series 1 got shoe-horned into the middle of the AoStH run, and I can't even remember series 2 airing at all on Channel 4. I think SatAM only ever got a few mentions in StC, and that was before AoStH had even aired for the first time.

AoStH in the other hand, was still being repeated on 4 as late as 1999, it was a constant through the school summer holidays and TCC were also airing it late-afternoons (right before Earthworm Jim and the Beano's Dennis the Menace) daily.

This post has been edited by Xilla: 29 May 2015 - 06:52 PM

[High Fidelity]

Xilla, on 29 May 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

ICEknight, on 29 May 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

I don't think many people in Spain even remembers that Sonic cartoon, to be honest... I have a feeling that its fandom may be mostly US-centric.


AoSTH on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people who was remotely familiar with videogames at that time remembers those.

Same in the UK really, SatAM was hardly (if ever) advertised and series 1 got shoe-horned into the middle of the AoStH run, and I can't even remember series 2 airing at all on Channel 4. I think SatAM only ever got a few mentions in StC, and that was before AoStH had even aired for the first time.

AoStH in the other hand, was still being repeated on 4 as late as 1999, it was a constant through the school summer holidays and TCC were also airing it late-afternoons (right before Earthworm Jim and the Beano's Dennis the Menace) daily.

Yeah, it did seem very US centric. Didn't they realize there's an audience outside of the US?

I've said it before and I'll say it again, Sonic worked best when he (the games) weren't trying to be cool, they just naturally were. I'm not bashing the US audience, and don't mean to sound anti-american or rub anyone up the wrong way. I just think the US marketing guys in charge at the time treated the audience (and the Japanese developers) as idiots, and felt the need to make Sonic more 'edgy' and serious at every occasion. They should have just trusted Sonic Team with their vision. Lucky we got the JP Sonic CD soundtrack. Apparently US fans 'weren't ready for techno' - what a load of bollocks. Yeah, kids love scat do bee bop jazz. Sonic 16 would have been crap. Shitty game dreamed up by a shitty marketing team. Anyway I'm ranting. Just makes me rage how Sega US didn't trust Sega JP when everything they put out themselves was shit.

I've gotta get over it really, it was like 20 years ago

[E-122-Psi]

Xilla, on 29 May 2015 - 06:52 PM, said:

ICEknight, on 29 May 2015 - 05:54 PM, said:

I don't think many people in Spain even remembers that Sonic cartoon, to be honest... I have a feeling that its fandom may be mostly US-centric.


AoSTH on the other hand, I'm pretty sure that most people who was remotely familiar with videogames at that time remembers those.

Same in the UK really, SatAM was hardly (if ever) advertised and series 1 got shoe-horned into the middle of the AoStH run, and I can't even remember series 2 airing at all on Channel 4. I think SatAM only ever got a few mentions in StC, and that was before AoStH had even aired for the first time.

AoStH in the other hand, was still being repeated on 4 as late as 1999, it was a constant through the school summer holidays and TCC were also airing it late-afternoons (right before Earthworm Jim and the Beano's Dennis the Menace) daily.

I remember that too. I was actually kinda pissed off about it, thinking it was some strange darker reboot of AoSth like what they did with the 80s TMNT, and was quite happy when it returned to the original goofiness. I did kinda go 'ooh' at the Freedom Fighters' cameos in Spinball though.

I appreciated Satam a lot more when realising it was a separate show and coming back to it in later years, but it does still feel very overrated. It's a lot better moderated than some of Sonic's other attempts to 'dark' but it's still kinda pretentious and it's a lot blander than it's fans make it out to be. It's version of Sonic is also insufferable. There was a lot of potential in it, but so much was barely used and it suffered the same problem as Archie in that the writers blatantly liked Sally way too much (anyone remember Bunnie Rabbot actually getting to do a whole lot?). I think even Aosth was more versatile than Satam, especially in Season Two.

In fairness I wasn't that keen on Mean Bean Machine as a little kid either, but that was more because I wasn't big on puzzle games or having a Sonic game without the guy himself in it. Now I love it as much as the main series games. I remember really wanting a platformer where Scratch and Grounder were Eggman's minions though.

This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 29 May 2015 - 08:31 PM

[Xilla]

AoStH has a lot of potential for a fan game I think. Imagine the total randomness of the potential stage tropes, Robotnik's boss machines being incredibly silly, encounters with the SSSSS Squad, Robotnik's sexy arse lovingly rendered in pixel form, chilli dogs instead of rings, hell a whole stage based around Mean Bean Machine!

I would totally do that if I had time (alas I don't)!

[Sawhog]

Since there was barely anything in the proof-of-concept pitch video other than a Sonic-themed beat-'em-up that just happened to be based off of a cartoon, I would say 'no', but that is because there was so little presented in the concept. I mean, if we had more documentation to go on, like Sonic Mars or some of the other early Sonic X-treme concepts, it could work out, but it would need a lot more polish.