[Stealth]

D.A. Garden, on 18 October 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

I've just read the section regarding the Angel Island Zone Act 1 loop before the big tree and I disagree. It's not really a 3 path system at all and your screenshot even confirms this. As your screenshot shows, Path A has collision that handles both the incoming path from the left and the path from the bottom. Due to the top solid collision, you will always remain on the right wall when running up from underneath and if coming from the left, run on top of the top solid collision until it reaches the "wall" section of the loop. Then it's just a case of continuing the loop with normal path swappers (I.e. 02 90 and 02 11, iirc). This sort of section is also present in IceCap Zone 2 and uses clever placement of top solid collision and path swappers to allow you to stay on one path until you hit said path swapper. Why you had to code something new to make this work is beyond me.

I never said anything about a "3 path system". Aside from referencing the 2-path system used since Sonic 2, what I did say was this:

"Although this only allows for two paths to cross the same space without issue, there is an area at the bottom of the last loop before the giant tree in act 1 where three paths cross each other- up the loop, down the loop, and up onto the loop from the separate path below"

I described, in detail, three distinct areas of collision that crossed each other on a 2D plane and how they were dealt with. The two-path system takes care of going up and coming down the loop, while the other, entirely distinct level path (not collision system path), which also crosses the same section of the level, is handled using this special exception. I've seen the code in the original game, and finding it is, in fact, how I got that particular level section to work correctly in my DS port after seeing that it didn't when I first imported the level. The pseudocode in my blog post is almost an exact duplicate of the C version I created for the 3DS port, which is based on the exact procedure I found in the original assembly

In all three versions, for exactly the same reason, it is absolutely necessary to handle it as an exception. Top-only collision is otherwise treated the same when found on a wall you're running up/down as it is when you encounter it on the floor below. You're allowed to pass through it "sideways" and from "below", but you always stand "on top of" it if any of it is below you. It's not fixed-directional; it's based on your orientation

[D.A. Garden]

My apologies for misquoting you as you are correct; you didn't specifically mention a three path system. However, I still don't understand the need for an exception here. I've looked at the area in detail many times in the past and have even used these chunks the same way in another area in my Sonic 3 and Knuckles hack (ongoing for 6 years+ now), so why is this exception necessary? The collision and path swapper objects that are used are more than adequate for achieving the result that's expected.

This post has been edited by D.A. Garden: 18 October 2014 - 09:55 AM

[GagaMan]

What a tease! The blog post has me salivating at the possibilities! Sega get on this, pay the Jackson estate for the songs if you have to!

[GeneHF]

My money is on the table waiting for you SEGA. I own multiple copies of the Sonic CD 2011 port and would happily slapped down for Sonic 1-3 2012/2014.

Don't know what needs to be done exactly, but unless it requires paying out an unreasonably large amount of money to someone's estate, try to make it happen.

[Techokami]

Damnit, I wanted to shell out money for a definitive version of Sonic 3K.
Very awesome stuff guys!

[Stealth]

D.A. Garden, on 18 October 2014 - 09:54 AM, said:

My apologies for misquoting you as you are correct; you didn't specifically mention a three path system. However, I still don't understand the need for an exception here. I've looked at the area in detail many times in the past and have even used these chunks the same way in another area in my Sonic 3 and Knuckles hack (ongoing for 6 years+ now), so why is this exception necessary? The collision and path swapper objects that are used are more than adequate for achieving the result that's expected.

In the original Sonic 3, an exception was made in the global collision code for the entirety of AIZ1, and only that level, so using the same chunks again will most certainly exhibit the same behavior. It's only in the Retro Engine version that it's handled based on position, because it's kind of stupid to keep performing tests on every frame throughout the entire game for something that only happens once in a single area of a single level

Also, it's necessary for the reason I described - "top" is relative to your orientation

Look for "Player_WalkVertR" to find the code for walking along a wall to the right, and look three lines above "locret_EE00", where you see "tst.b $41(a0)". That's the timer, and the code at "loc_EE02" is what counts down the timer and holds the angle value at $C0. The code at "loc_EE0E" is what initially detects the structure when a height value of more than 15 is found in AIZ1, and it fixes the angle value to $C0 and starts the timer. Compare all of this to the code for "Player_WalkVertL"

The reason you stay on the wall instead of following the top-solid is that all of this is meant to prevent the height value taken from the top-solid collision from being applied to your position, at least until you've reached an area where the value is 15 or less and the timer has expired

[D.A. Garden]

Ah, see this I didn't know and now I feel bad for making it look like I was doubting your knowledge. My apologies. I know enough about layouts and object usage/placement to create new ones but am still unsure of many behind the scenes actions so I'm glad you've explained this so that I understand. Thanks.

I am curious, does Sandopolis have the same timer and exception in place? It uses 2 strange path swapper like objects that act in a different way to normal and has you running through top solid collision in a similar way at the end, so I am curious.

Also, slightly off-topic but it's only recently that I've been able to edit Lava Reef Zone Act 1. The "Rock Layout Object" that's used to give the aesthetical look of rocks being in front of Sonic is achieved through objects that aren't placed in the normal convention and I've been able to finally edit them and their placement by loading them in SonED2, although they show up as Casino Night Zone bumpers. I'd be interested to know that if (or when) you get to creating Lava Reef Zone for this that they'll also be handled the same way or will you use another method for them?

Again, thanks for the clarification and good luck with this. I do hope it goes somewhere.

This post has been edited by D.A. Garden: 18 October 2014 - 10:34 AM

[Dark Sonic]

Ah so there were extra tidbits planned. Full versions of the 2 player levels (or at least ones that were the same that didn't use the scruncthed up sprites for 2 player) would be awesome.

Random note, when you guys were toying with the level select (Nice touch with Flying Battery as level 5 XD) did you consider using the Data select background instead of the Sonic and Miles one from Sonic 2?

[LordOfSquad]

Wow, the game looks fantastic in widescreen. I really hope Sega gets their ducks in a row and puts the green light on for this eventually. You guys are the best.

[Vanya]

That was a really interesting read.
Gives me ideas and insights for my own project.
Also, expanded versions of the competition stages is an idea that has been floating around in the back of my mind for a while now.
I'd love to see what could come of it and how the half sized stage graphics are handled artisticly.

[kazblox]

Please, SEGA, do this for us! Even if you have problems with Michael Jackson... This independent project spun me out of the shitter and left me in a pile of cheers and WANTS, dripping saliva all day...

This post has been edited by kazblox: 18 October 2014 - 11:55 AM

[KingOfBunnies]

Definitely a good proof of concept. I'm guessing you probably showed this to SEGA just so they know it can be done. Whatever it may be, this was amazing to watch. I love the widescreen and the whole port is very faithful. Hopefully something can happen where this sees the light of day.

This post has been edited by KingOfBunnies: 18 October 2014 - 12:01 PM

[sonicblur]

Just an random note on the Gumball machine topic; It could be a regional thing, but I've never found it unusual to refer to a toy capsule machine as a gumball machine, even if it has toy capsules in it. In most supermarkets, they usually used the exact same machines for both balls of gum and toy capsules, so they could empty the gumballs out and replace them with toy capsules or vice versa. To me it always referred to the style of machine where you turn the knob and a round object falls out, as opposed to specifically being for gum. (E.g "I want the toy in that gumball machine")

Awesome job guys, and I hope this helps your chances of getting the next one approved.

[ICEknight]

Awesome video and a really interesting read! I don't know what SEGA is waiting for, quite honestly.


Regarding the new spheres:
-I feel that, perhaps, having a fixed teleportation order (rather then random) could make things a bit more fair when trying to create a strategy to master the stages.
-In order to speed things up for the player, perhaps the green spheres could also have the ability to transform in groups when surrounded by red spheres, like this:

[DigitalDuck]

LordOfSquad, on 18 October 2014 - 11:13 AM, said:

Wow, the game looks fantastic in widescreen. I really hope Sega gets their ducks in a row and puts the green light on for this eventually. You guys are the best.

*gets in line*