[ashthedragon]

See, a guy in a Spanish tabloid website is claiming that Sonic Adventure was first developed for Saturn, beacuse he says that Mystic ruins background models look like saturn ones, so he claims that the game was made in saturn and then ported to Dreamcast, exactly like shenmue was. He claims that Sonic Adventure's earliest build was developed right after they finished Nights into Dreams, and that they soon had a build in where Windy Valley was the first level, and we could play as Amy and Big with different playstyles to the ones they use in the final game. In fact, he claims Amy's gameplay was simmilar to the one she has in Sonic Advance, and big was looking for Froggy ( not fishing). Also says that Sky Chase act 2 is present but not act 1.
On top of that, he says that there are CG videos of Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, Gamma, Amy and Big in their "classic forms", and that he has got'em from here,so they claim you've said that and distorting what Retro's Wiki says to give evidence to his words.Also uses Sonic Adventure's BETA screenshots to prove it ( that sky chase with saturn models scene...btw, I can't find it now at youtube, anyone can help? ).

I know it's utter bullshit,I know him and his tabloid site ( published before that Sega had confirmed SA2HD using as a proof a Sonic GDK image, made a "world exclusive" claiming Sega's recent reestructuration and financial cuts is beacuse they're going to release a new console called Orbis...), but now I'm curious to what extend did Sonic Adventure been developed in Saturn. I know the project of "Sonic RPG" started there, but how much of it was ported to dreamcast? I've always belived they just used the base engine and rough idea of how to make a 3D Sonic, but just that: nothing storywise, model wise, or textures. So it's not really Sonic Adventure itself, just it's prevolution.If the SATURN version could have been finished, it would be absolutely nothing like the Adventure we know nowdays...it would be probably something similat to Sonic World from Sonic Jam ( who in fact uses the early work made on the project for saturn)
It's really like that?
Let's discuss Sonic Adventure's development!

This post has been edited by ashthedragon: 12 May 2012 - 05:12 PM

[SpeedStarTMQ]

Sonic Adventure's development fascinates me possibly more than any other Sonic game. Whilst we have quite a few bits here and there that suggest it started on the Saturn, we've no screenshots, no concept art confirmed to be relating to that peroid, nothing. From what I can see, all the stuff we've seen (concept art and all) has been relative to the version which was started on Dreamcast rather than Saturn, if such a version exists.

I think the large push behind this whole Saturn concept is because some of the models for the game seem to be similar to Sonic R's. Sonic on the Sky Chase plane often pops up as a point of interest, but it's not really wholly credible considering that he's less detailed because he's very small in comparison to the screen and the plane you're taking control of.

I imagine that most of the current Sonic Adventure would have been made from the ground up or redesigned for Dreamcast. The character Chaos itself was possible purely because the Dreamcast let it be, whereas on consoles prior it would have been difficult if not impossible to create correctly.

As a side note though, Sonic Jam's hub world is quoted somewhere as being a test to see what the next future Sonic title could have been like, and it's very similar in a way to stuff Sonic Adventure offers, down to the physics if I'm not mistaken (I haven't actually played it though).

This post has been edited by SpeedStarTMQ: 12 May 2012 - 05:18 PM

[Caniad Bach]

Well it's generally believed that the base engine was derived from Sonic Worlds from 'Jam, as were some of the early models, which still made it into the game in Sky Chase. I seem to remember that the game that was to become SA1 began development for the Saturn, but it was decided to hold off until the Dreamcast pretty early on.

[minichapman]

ashthedragon, on 12 May 2012 - 05:03 PM, said:

See, a guy in a Spanish tabloid website

I'm not getting link to anything. It just says that the article does not exist. Does this guy have any concrete evidence or is it just baseless conjuncture like so many times before?

EDIT: Wait, nevermind. A search needed to be done to sort the problem. Silly me!

Right. I'm not sure how he got this info. It sounds like he saw the beta videos, put 2 and 2 together and got 5.
At least he links and refers to the Retro page on Adventure.

This post has been edited by minichapman: 12 May 2012 - 05:46 PM

[ashthedragon]

But is the Sky Chase with low poly models in the final game? I've never seen it ( although I mostly play in DX, but when I've played it in dreamcast, I've not seen it either). It's a exclusive to the original japanese version or something?

@minichapman , looks like the google translate version doesn't work. Here is the original one in spanish http://www.gamezoide...venture-de.html although expect it to be deleted any moment,It's his usual move.

This post has been edited by ashthedragon: 12 May 2012 - 05:46 PM

[JaxTH]

ashthedragon, on 12 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

But is the Sky Chase with low poly models in the final game? I've never seen it ( although I mostly play in DX, but when I've played it in dreamcast, I've not seen it either). It's a exclusive to the original japanese version or something?

@minichapman , looks like the google translate version doesn't work. Here is the original one in spanish http://www.gamezoide...venture-de.html although expect it to be deleted any moment,It's his usual move.

Saturn models are only used in the Dreamcast version of Sky Chase Act 2 during the Tornado's transformation sequence.

[darkspines35]

The Saturn models were used in both of the Sky Chase Acts on the Dreamcast version actually. And I read not that long ago in some magazine about the development of SA1. Naka-san basically said he was given a small team and ten months to do a game for the launch of the Dreamcast, and by the end of the ten months, his team had tripled in size or something, and they ended up having to redo stuff in later releases/revisions of the game after the initial Japanese release due to bugs and errors. I mean, there's a Japanese version which has effects on Sonic's running animation to where his feet blur and stuff. I forgot which revision this was though...

Edit: The magazine was an old one by the way. I'll see if I can find it again and post a link.

This post has been edited by darkspines35: 12 May 2012 - 05:57 PM

[minichapman]

ashthedragon, on 12 May 2012 - 05:41 PM, said:

@minichapman , looks like the google translate version doesn't work. Here is the original one in spanish http://www.gamezoide...venture-de.html although expect it to be deleted any moment,It's his usual move.

If that's the case. Might as well grab the text. The pics are all things we've seen before too.

WARNING: Long ass text in spoiler (because everything's in spoilers now).

Spoiler

Quote

This is a research I've done personally by a series of observations I experienced recently re-playing Sonic Adventure on Xbox Live, I was particularly pretty "fly" with some textures and in particular how he built certain type elements (such as trees and brush) in specific parts of the stage. For a server, who has played in every generation of consoles (considering as first generation, confrontation NES / Master System and the above "Prehistory videojueguil"), I must say that I have consulted a whirlwind of information, from technical data to documents more intelligible to the general public, as the data published on the website of SonicRetro (public will address below). That said, I will make a brief summary of the most important of all I found:

After the end of Nights into Dreams (1996), the team of Sonic Team in Japan began to work on the future of Sonic, in particular, wanted to express in another way, the move to 3D Sonic they were doing the American team, Sega Technical Institute, Sonic X-treme. He began developing what would be Sonic Adventure and relatively soon, it was the first Built. In it, many steps we met in the final product does NOT exist. In fact, the story began in Windy Valley (phase on the other hand, suffered multiple changes throughout the process, even a few months before the launch) and we could see Amy Rose with a different playing style and closer to what we saw in Sonic Advance (ie without being persecuted by the green robot) or Big looking for Froggy. Nor was the first event of Sky Chase 1 and built directly into the first single was the second (when the tornado transforms and Tails as Sonic as "land" in the Egg Carrier).

Windy Valley in the early stages of development:
could be used to Big and Amy and was
the beginning of the adventure.
Soon, almost all the work done for Saturn, was cut short, the life of that system came to an end, and the Katana project (which would become the Dreamcast) was taking shape. The development team began to carry everything he could to that system but intelligently, we used the last Saturn Sonic title, Sonic Jam, as a test of the new 3D engine that was to be released in Saturn if Sonic Adventure had finally come out on that system. Thus, and as confirmed on the link:

"Not Wanting to let the Work That HAD Been Done for the Saturn version go to waste, the earliest builds of Sonic Adventure Sonic Were Transformed Into the World title Portion of the Sonic Jam compilation." (Which translated is: "Not wanting to throw the work had been done for the Saturn version, the first version of Sonic Adventure became a portion of the compilation entitled Sonic Jam d. ").


Amy AFTER
Amy BEFORE
Following this change, the first problem faced by the Sonic Team was somewhat technical, as the dual-processor architecture was complex and Saturn on the other hand, the Katana very simple (using a development kit in which were included some instructions on the DirectX 6.1 from Microsoft, was not exactly the same, but the schedule was very similar to the PC's of the time), this is the reason why, this server has defended lately, the tremendous difference Mystic Ruin textures between the front and the back (seen at the end of the game). Returning to the subject, began to carry the code of the first built, however, the game's director, Takashi Iizuka, Ohshima spoke to redesign the characters and give them a new look, taking advantage of new possibilities offered Katana. We were, unknowingly, in what today would be called "REBOOT" of the series (although at that time was not given much importance), and so we saw more stylized characters, or other completely transformed since the days of Megadrive as Amy Rose, who is the best example.

The real Mystic Ruins
Sonic Adventure
The changes were not there, and all the whole team made a long tour through South America, which not only inspired but also took photographs used in the project to create "the best textures" in some parts of the game. From this trip, we included some new areas that were not in the first built in this way, Windy Valley was moved to the second "stage" or screen, while emerged as the beginning of the adventure Emerald Coast, part of Mystic Ruins, Tails by the decline of desert sand, Speed ​​Highway, Sky Chase 1 (2 was the first built) ... No doubt this trip to South America was quite productive and we can see very well documented and countless photographs.

Then began the race to have the title ready for launch of Dreamcast and crawled as part of the development of Saturn, there were some problems with version PAL 60hz mode, also the Japanese version had a number of bugs that were fixed in American and European versions, in fact, subsequently released in Japan Sonic Adventure International ... In short, this story and know many and I will not deepen, so I'll just close this work by doing two things, first, post one of the sources I used and it is totally reliable, the second, to emphasize that this I work by the tremendous admiration I feel for the character and the company and because I feel responsible to do your best, because to me, Sonic deserves the utmost respect and that respect is not earned by calling the liars others by the system without providing evidence or simply by getting on the Net, a well-worn radio in which not even pronounce the word hedgehog. With this work and some of the sources I have available, I intend to pay tribute to that for me is the most important of the game (again, for me) and educate some people, that to be the web's # 1 Sonic in Spanish, it takes more than just a weekly postcad in which three friends get together to take a bath banal ego, because, above all, information is needed rigor, effort, dedication, selflessness, and above all professionalism.

All that said, I invite all readers who truly GAMEZOIDER and they like the hedgehog, to be read this excellent article (just click here) that for years, exists in the database where you can deleitaros SONICRETRO with endless photographs of the entire production process SONIC ADVENTURE. Remember, finally, that while there is available to everyone (in fact, there are many things I myself do not understand) you can also find technical information about the production process, including the problems of conversion of Saturn Dreamcast of this game.

[Ayu Tsukimiya]

Every time I'm reminded of SA's development I find myself wishing we could have gotten an Adventure-like game on the Saturn.

Sonic Jam had some pretty nice graphics for the environment, too.

[JaxTH]

Ayu Tsukimiya, on 12 May 2012 - 05:57 PM, said:

Sonic Jam had some pretty nice graphics for the environment, too.

It was also Japan's "FUCK YOU" to America as well.

[Sik]

Yeah, supposedly the Sonic World engine eventually became Sonic Adventure's. Considering Sega was using C for the Saturn, porting it to the Dreamcast probably wasn't that hard (they would only need to change the code that sent data to the video hardware).

And before somebody asks: no, it has nothing to do with Sonic R. The Sonic R engine was originally made for a Formula 1 game, which somehow got turned into a Sonic game as Sega wanted a new Sonic spin-off. Suddenly the player controls make a lot more of sense.

SpeedStarTMQ, on 12 May 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

The character Chaos itself was possible purely because the Dreamcast let it be, whereas on consoles prior it would have been difficult if not impossible to create correctly.

It was created specifically to show the Dreamcast could render graphics other hardware couldn't. That's the whole reason why his entire body is translucent.

[ashthedragon]

I would love to see something similar to Jam's Sonic World, but much bigger of course, as a new game on today consoles. Something similar to SRB2 , open ranged.

This post has been edited by ashthedragon: 12 May 2012 - 07:03 PM

[Cooljerk]

Anybody pining for a fully 3D sonic-esq game on the saturn should check out burning rangers. It's a very different game compared to Sonic the Hedgehog, but it's probably the most competent fully 3D world ever created for the system, and since it runs on the NiGHTS Engine, it's not that unreasonable to expect that a late-gen Sonic game on the saturn would at least look similar.

Every time I play it, I imagine that a Saturn sonic game would have likely been very similar. A lot of the mechanics in Sonic Adventure feel like they were ripped wholesale out of burning rangers.

[MainMemory]

I guess this is a good place to mention this unused model I found a while ago in SADXPC, then SA1:

This post has been edited by MainMemory: 12 May 2012 - 08:53 PM

[Cooljerk]

That's the spring from Sonic Jam, correct?

The springs in Sonic R look different.