[Andrew75]

AerosolSP, on 01 May 2012 - 09:48 AM, said:

I'm pretty sure that the demo is supposed to showcase the engine's graphical capabilities. Wasn't that why we were talking about having those rolling hills to begin with? Besides, I think you're overestimating how much work it takes to create that kind of terrain. Grossly, in fact.

We're not talking about a fully-themed level. We're talking about using a terrain generator to get some hills, filling it with grass with a realistic grass rendering thingy (sorcery), and putting a couple of loops here and there to play with the physics a bit.

sorry, I was speaking of the game in general not terrain,
as when I saw things like adding little planet into the background and doing a sonic CD inspired environment, ect ect,
just looking at stuff like that, which got me a bit worried about the project's future of being organized.


I think my mentioned post about stuff referring to scales ect should be done first before starting any type of level building,
as once the scales are set than they will most likely cause the project to be stuck with them later down the road.
(You gata walk before you can run)

hmm
This being a graphical test, I think it would be waste of valuable time for the team to work on a level such as that to test what the engine can do.
Keep it simple, for a grass / terrain test you don't need loops, as its just a grass / terrain test, ( unless the loop had grass on it)
and for testing other shaders,,, they would most quickly be done on test object placed around a small room environment. (spheres)

after all the initial testing is done, than a level can be built quicker using all the assets you've created.
(or even have a separate team build (or model) a showcase level, while others concentrate on the graphical programing aspects)

Take it from me working on Sonic CD Remix and AXSX since 2006.
The more ambitious tests like this become, the more that they will take away from other important aspects of developing.
For example, Many tests that I've done became way to ambitious, taking away time for building real levels.

Edit: crap , the topic is build me a test level.. so that what I initially responded to.

Edit 2, adding a couple of loops here and there wont be enough to test the physics. ( especially or the 2.5D stuff)
thats why I mentioned making level assets for testing thinks like physics, and setting a scale in stone to follow the rest of the project)

Edit 3: Personally I don't think a terrain would be a good way to initially build or test the gameplay engine off of.
as its topography is very chaotic and not set up as very well controlled environment for testing and troubleshooting things like physics.

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 01 May 2012 - 10:37 AM

[winterhell]

The theme or the visual complexity should not take manhour resources from the programmers, as the physics are going to be terrain independent. Making the level would be a matter of an artist making the assets, putting them together in the level editor, and placing the regular gimmicks/loops etc. So it should depend on the number and skills of the artists.

[Andrew75]

Hmm so has the team decided on a unit standard yet between all art guys and programmers?
if not than I vote for:
1 Genesis sonic pixel = 1 3ds max unit = 1 game engine unit.

3ds max screen 1 unit to 1 sonic pixel


= 1 3ds max unit to 1 UDK unit ( game engine) Sonic's scale matches precisely to the prop and the level.
the physics also match the level assets here ( jump height run speed ect.
( a perfect controlled environment is key to showcase and tweak the gameplay to make it feel like sonic. so ya scale is very important from the start.


here is nice example pic with green hill and Sonic at translated Genesis scales. (1 to 1 scale)
( I really hate that default GDK player model) :P

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 01 May 2012 - 03:53 PM

[winterhell]

I'm in for 1 pixel = 1 unit .
Sure it may be a bit confusing at first for some modellers to have the character be 40 units tall but there isn't much more convenient scale. Hopefully it wont cause Z-buffer problems.

[Candescence]

Judging by the lack of posts for days, I think we've run out of ideas to brainstorm at this point.

[Aerosol]

So now we're just waiting on the first build to make a demo level for? What can be done in the meantime?

[Candescence]

Simple. Agree on what we're going to make, and start planning in advance.

[Aerosol]

So is it time to hold a vote?

[Candescence]

Probably a good idea, yes.

[Kharen]

Forgive me if I'm posting this in the wrong place, but I had an idea I wanted to share. It's about a different part of the demo game than the level design.

So, I recall reading a while ago a couple complaints about the boost mechanic in the modern games. The way it's set up as it is now, it feels too much like Sonic's boost is simply just turning his "go really fast" powers on and off. Other complaints were along the lines of it being too overpowered and such.

I always thought of Sonic's running through the levels along the lines of a marathon runner in an incredibly long race. They'll run at a decent speed, but pace themselves so that they can maintain that speed for a lengthy duration. Sonic's boost ability is simply him exerting himself as much as possible all at once, and using Ring power to prevent from wearing himself completely out.

This got me thinking of doing a sort of re-imagining of the boost mechanic, sort of. Set up the Boost Meter sort of like a cross between the version in Sonic Rush (multiple colors overlapping when filled), and the version in the console games (more compact design, tucked out of the way). Each level starts with the Boost Meter slightly filled with the initial fill color. Let's say it's blue. When you collect Rings, and only when you collect Rings, it slowly fills with the secondary fill color, let's say it's red. When you use the boost, it drains like normal, and you can use as much as you want with no negative consequence, until you hit that initial blue state. If you drain it farther than that, Sonic's burning off his own energy instead of the power he's gotten from the Rings he's picked up. Once this energy is burned out, his non-boosting running speed is lowered, because he's too exhausted to move as quickly. If you stop moving completely, Sonic rests and catches his breath, slowly refilling the Boost Meter to the rested blue state.

Because this is Sonic's natural running ability and not just some sort of "go really fast" power, there are more limits to what can and cannot be done using the Boost. For example, the Boost cannot be activated while grinding. After all, how exactly is Sonic supposed to suddenly increase in speed that much when he's essentially just sliding on a metal rail? However, his grinding speed is dependent on the speed he initially hits the rail at, so if he happens to be actively boosting when he hits the rail, he'll still be traveling at his boosted speeds. Since he's still just effortlessly sliding on a rail, though, it wouldn't decrease his boost meter while grinding. Similarly, he can't activate his boost in mid-air, because there's nothing to push off with, and he cannot activate his boost when passively riding something like the carts in Generations' Planet Wisp level, because he's just standing in one place, and his forward movement is dependent on the machine he's riding and not himself.

This would require more strategy in how the boost is used per level, because the player suddenly has to consider "Do I boost all out on this pathway, or just partway through? If I only boost partially, I'll still have a good natural speed going, but if I boost all out, there's a platforming section coming up I can rest at while I line up the precision jumps, and my reduced speed until that point might be worth the increased boost distance."

I thought, since the engine is being put together right now, it wouldn't be too difficult as it is to implement the option for something like that, or to give a casual, non-programming user the option to alter mechanics such as the boost in such a way. I mean, the easier you can set up things like this for a casual user, the better, right? Just thought I'd share my idea, and see if it was plausible or not. Any opinions?

[winterhell]

Yes such a mechanic is easy/fast to code, especially if we have a regular boost already implemented. Its more a matter of creativity than actually implementing it.

Anyway I like the idea

This post has been edited by winterhell: 02 June 2012 - 07:30 AM

[Candescence]

Interesting idea, but I'd add something else to it to make it a less broken move - remove the 'offensive' capability from it. In addition, prevent the player from boosting while rolling. This means the spin-dash automatically becomes a useful ground-based attack, as the boost doesn't replace it automatically. The boost in this context is about as useful as the Super Peel-Out, now, if we adjust it accordingly. Speed-runners get a neat tool to go fast, but at the same time, boosting becomes more risky because you will take damage from enemies.

But at any rate, perhaps I should start a voting topic. This sub-forum needs some life in it.