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Sonic 2 HD Alpha release

#361 User is offline Gen 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:25 PM

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View PostVolpino, on 30 March 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sonic 2 HD Community Edition sounds cool; I'm on-board. Dunno if we'd get any programmers interested in it though. Should we just randomly make a topic somewhere for it and start posting art?

The Mobius Engine would have a better shot at this (and could implement features to do 2D games as silly as that would be for a 2.5D/3D engine). May as well just wait until that's in a usable state for what you guys want, and use it as such. But I imagine switching to another engine would be a fairly involved process trying to get assets designed for one engine to the other.

#362 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:31 PM

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View Postancara, on 30 March 2012 - 02:23 PM, said:

View PostGuess Who, on 30 March 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

View PostCinossu, on 30 March 2012 - 02:17 PM, said:

View PostVolpino, on 30 March 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sonic 2 HD Community Edition sounds cool; I'm on-board. Dunno if we'd get any programmers interested in it though. Should we just randomly make a topic somewhere for it and start posting art?
.. yeah, no. Seriously, if anything, take this whole thing a lesson. There's a reason we have History classes.


Yes, in case you've forgotten, we've tried this once. It was called "Sonic 2 HD".

This is why, THIS time, keep the guys on staff accountable, and keep info clear enough to work with.

Also, if we WERE to do another HD game, why not a different game?

Sonic 1 HD, anyone? :v:
As fun as it is humouring ideas like this, it's not for this topic. Let this be the end of the further "HD"-esque community projects in this topic, please.

#363 User is offline Relick 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:34 PM

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Back on the topic of secrets, I've seen the youtube comments of TSS's playthrough this:
Spoiler

This post has been edited by Relick: 30 March 2012 - 02:35 PM

#364 User is offline Josh 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 02:42 PM

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View Postsaxman, on 30 March 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

We've heard a lot of criticism on these forums aimed at maybe one or two things. But I'm curious to know what things you like about it best, because that counts equally! Please let me know!


Since nobody else has spoken up...

First thing that blew my mind was definitely the title screen. I'd seen the gameplay preview last January and that was amazing, but to finally see that beautiful animation,,, it looks so damn professional!

I love the art style, personally. That mockup Emerald Hill a few pages back didn't appeal to me nearly as much as this does, and it's exactly what I'd want in an official HD remake.

My favorite thing about it? Probably just the overall quality and polish, which results in it not only feeling perfectly natural but in me wanting so BADLY to continue on to Chemical Plant.

I don't give a crap about all this drama, Too many topics on Retro start off with praise and fun and then degenerate into negativity and arguing. The team is well-aware of their criticisms, and having put so damn much effort into this already, I'm confident they'll make some good decisions to keep it going strong.

#365 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:09 PM

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I also love the title screen animation, but Cinossu was right... There's something very odd going on with Sonic's hand.

Look at his thumb; it already looks odd in stills, but it looks extremely odd in motion.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 30 March 2012 - 03:10 PM

#366 User is offline Ayu Tsukimiya 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:37 PM

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View PostRelick, on 30 March 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Back on the topic of secrets, I've seen the youtube comments of TSS's playthrough this:
Spoiler





SCREENS. NOW.

#367 User is offline S1impikenz 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:40 PM

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*rubs hands in anticipation...
I can't wait until 2 days from now (April 1) when LOst comes out of the woodwork to say "APRIL FOOLS!!!" and then releases the originally intended alpha release to the public! :specialed:

. . . . . .

But seriously, it really hasn't occurred to anyone that this all may just be a bad April Fools joke? I mean come on, a fake public release of Sonic 2 HD Alpha had already been done as an April Fools joke before. (remember 4/1/10?)

#368 User is offline CorralSummer 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

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View PostAyu Tsukimiya, on 30 March 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

View PostRelick, on 30 March 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Back on the topic of secrets, I've seen the youtube comments of TSS's playthrough this:
Spoiler





SCREENS. NOW.


Spoiler


#369 User is offline Relick 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

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EDIT: NVM, vid above :P
This post has been edited by Relick: 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM

#370 User is offline Volpino 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

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View PostJosh, on 30 March 2012 - 02:42 PM, said:

View Postsaxman, on 30 March 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

We've heard a lot of criticism on these forums aimed at maybe one or two things. But I'm curious to know what things you like about it best, because that counts equally! Please let me know!


Since nobody else has spoken up...


I replied to him. :l

#371 User is offline Hez 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:58 PM

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View PostVolpino, on 30 March 2012 - 02:04 PM, said:

View Postsaxman, on 30 March 2012 - 01:47 PM, said:

I would ask that posts hilighting code and other tidbits from the game be trashed immediately. Some people got banned or warned for stealing other artwork, editing another fangame, etc. This is publicizing code that, for all intents and purposes, was supposed to be private. I don't advocate anything happen to these members, just their posts. We do not own Sonic or Sonic the Hedgehog 2, but the code used is still private property.

I think too much emphasis has been put on the encryption issue. And while it's perfectly legitimate criticism and something I feel should probably be changed, it almost entirely misses the bigger picture: we have this game that has just been released, and the graphics are stunning. The physics are nearly identical, and it you get all of this stuff in one package. It's far more work than any one person could do alone, and mind you, few could do this well. I'm celebrating this release! It's not just because I'm a team member, but it's also because I've seen the blood, sweat, and tears these people have shed to get this far. I am impressed, and I know all the people I've shown it to so far are also highly impressed!

We've heard a lot of criticism on these forums aimed at maybe one or two things. But I'm curious to know what things you like about it best, because that counts equally! Please let me know!


I liked the title screen, the title music, I loved Tails' sprites, though I have a nitpick with his eyes when he's accelerating not turning angry (It makes him look kind of lifeless) and I love Sonic's extra animations. My biggest problem is the boss music being cut short and feeling very half-assed because of it, and I think the drill machine needs to look more reflective - like metal - but it looks nice otherwise, I love Robotnik's goggles, they look appropriate, and I found it exciting to stop and look at everything, like the trees, although they move a little unnaturally.

View PostCyberblade, on 30 March 2012 - 01:33 PM, said:

Okay, so there's not much I can add to all the drama that's already been said. DRM sucks, it's even more retarded than usual in this case, and its ridiculous that it's a big part of what's been holding this fan project up. Now, I know people have suggested the artists leaving and finding another programmer, but why the fuck hasn't anybody suggested we just get a bunch of other artists and programmers together and do it all to the original intent? There quite really is nothing from stopping any of us from making a competing Sonic 2 HD, or going even further beyond that.

Its just fucking hilarious that we're all taking all this time and energy to criticize the S2HD team in much the same way we all criticize Sonic Team and DIMPS, yet we're stopping there just because its a fan project. Hypocrisy at its finest from both sides. Just because its a fan project means we need to respect it enough not to make a copy? Bullshit. If we can create all sorts of Sonic clones and remakes from official sources, what makes the unofficial ones different? Damnit Retro, when we find something to bitch about with Segas games we start tearing them apart, 'fixing' them, and remaking them, there's no difference here.

And for fucks sake, all of you, on both sides, get off the "Physics/graphics not pixel perfect, raaaagggeee~ :argh: " thing that you all get so stuck on. Be willing to tweak the graphics and physics in ways that make them BETTER. Theres a key word there that everyone, fans and SEGA, seem to miss all the freaking time. The physics changed between Sonic 1, 2, and 3&K, as did the graphical style. There was nothing wrong with that then, and there isn't anything wrong with doing it now. Street Fighter 2 HD Remix is probably the true inspiration for this game, far beyond that Death Egg pic, and they changed up plenty. Some levels had graphics changed and altered for more depth, the characters had extra detail, and startling enough they altered and changed a number of the games mechanics to improve the game. There is nothing wrong with it, and it still looks and feels so much like the game it is re-making without feeling like a waste of time and money. There is nothing 'sacred' about the games, they're just games and need to be treated with the recognition that, hey, maybe those guys 20 years ago didn't know what they were doing either.


Sonic 2 HD Community Edition sounds cool; I'm on-board. Dunno if we'd get any programmers interested in it though. Should we just randomly make a topic somewhere for it and start posting art?

View PostHez, on 30 March 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Dude, its their shit. Why does anyone here have a right to tell them what to do? If they want to make you update you're game to play it, then they CAN. Don't like it? Make your own Sonic 2 HD and release it, no one's stopping you. Sure, I don't agree with some of the things l0st is doing, but it's still THEIR project. THEY decided to go in that art direction. I barely listen to 10 percent of fans of my fangames, why should they listen to theirs? If you cater to everyone, nothing is ever going to get finished. Personally, I think they went the more flash looking art style way because it would be far easier to animate down the road, making the project get completed in less than 20 years.

Now I know some faggoty ass is going to call me out on this, but it's still their game, and L0st has every right to keep his programming/anything to himself if he wants, its HIS work.


Hey genius, I know you're all anti-criticism or whatever because of how butthurt you get when someone has the slightest gripe with your work, but DRM in a fangame is kind of illegal, not to mention massive hypocrisy considering the sources.


Hey fucktard, you missed my whole point. This has nothing to do with us, this has to do with them and their team. We're being like those white people getting offended for black peoples rights. I could give a shit less about DRM and how legal it is, it's their problem, not ours. So quit getting offended for other people.

View PostAerosolSP, on 30 March 2012 - 02:21 PM, said:

View PostHez, on 30 March 2012 - 01:55 PM, said:

Dude, its their shit. Why does anyone here have a right to tell them what to do? If they want to make you update you're game to play it, then they CAN. Don't like it? Make your own Sonic 2 HD and release it, no one's stopping you. Sure, I don't agree with some of the things l0st is doing, but it's still THEIR project. THEY decided to go in that art direction. I barely listen to 10 percent of fans of my fangames, why should they listen to theirs? If you cater to everyone, nothing is ever going to get finished. Personally, I think they went the more flash looking art style way because it would be far easier to animate down the road, making the project get completed in less than 20 years.

Now I know some faggoty ass is going to call me out on this, but it's still their game, and L0st has every right to keep his programming/anything to himself if he wants, its HIS work.


This kind of misses the point. LOst has desperately tried to force an 'I' into 'team', and it's been holding back the progress of S2HD for some time. That's not fair to his teammates.

LOst's draconian DRM ideas (and implementation of the compromise!) are massively hypocritical, given he didn't reverse-engineer Sonic games by himself, and it is their reverse-engineering that enabled him to write the engine to be as accurate as it is. Not only that, but considering that the engine is based off of reverse-engineered code that he did not create, DRM protecting it is, by my reckoning, illegal. Someone can correct me on that if I'm wrong. The game also assumes you accepted a license agreement, when there isn't one to accept. Not sure how illegal that is, but it sure is retarded.

Finally, yes, Sonic 2 HD is their project. But it wasn't always that way. It's understandable that people be disappointed in a somewhat entitled manner. To some, this Sonic 2 HD is as much their project as it is TeamS2HD's, considering that without enough initial interest, Sonic 2 HD might have just sputtered and died a long time ago.

Again, this is their teams problem, not ours. Why can't we just stick to comments and questions about the alpha, and not L0sts rights as a human (I do understand we're not talking about his basic rights, this is called exaggeration)?

#372 User is offline Ayu Tsukimiya 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 03:59 PM

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View PostCorralSummer, on 30 March 2012 - 03:49 PM, said:

View PostAyu Tsukimiya, on 30 March 2012 - 03:37 PM, said:

View PostRelick, on 30 March 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

Back on the topic of secrets, I've seen the youtube comments of TSS's playthrough this:
Spoiler





SCREENS. NOW.


Spoiler




Oh dear god, please let that fire be a placeholder.

#373 User is offline Black Squirrel 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:02 PM

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I decided to play about a bit in Paint.NET. There's only so much you can do so the colours aren't perfect, but it's basically to amplify the point I made several pages back

http://img687.images...8/sonic2hd2.png

I restored the original colour scheme slightly. If someone took the time to do this properly I think the end result would look a lot better. It would satisfy me, anyway. All you'd need to do then is restore the original EHZ theme composition (I recommend opening Sonic 2 in a variant of Gens or something, and turning off the chips individually).

#374 User is offline Deef 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:10 PM

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Oops, switched back to the D3D Release runtime. Now it runs at 60fps with hiccups, and the occasional drop to 30. It fixed up the act 2 not loading problem as well.
So a few more comments.

Physics/control:

I'm still not finding anything I can point to for physics issues. It is satisfyingly true to the classic game from what I can tell.
· The rolling control not working right was a big mistake.
· Sonic can't stand as high up a quarter pipe (say for a spin dash) as he used to, but I imagine this was deliberate since it presents better. I have no problem with it.
· Bit annoying bumping into the camera, a la Icecap, at the start of act 2.
· Do the Coconuts use different timing? Having trouble with the Bouncing Challenge.

I might want to lean to saying things like "a bit heavier/laggy" but this could well be the placebo effect combined with the frame rate hiccups. I'd need to play its namesake to tell. In other words, the physics are so tight I can't say for sure if there is any difference at all.


Execution:

The client itself is a bit of a mess as many have said.
· In fact, writing this post I was surprised by the music out of nowhere. Oh yeah, it's S2HDa, loading so long in silence that I had forgotten it's on. Loading randomly fluctuates between a bit long, and ridiculous.
· Also, if you maximise the scaled window, it of course doesn't maximise but it does grow itself some maximised corners. It's just a bit sloppy.
· Seconding the notion that it's bizarre that the visual art gets encrypted while the audio art doesn't even get packaged. Tee Lopes' contribution was definitely a very strong part of this project. I guess he's alright with the way it is though. The code obfuscation business doesn't bother me; people can do what they want with their projects. I simply feel Tee Lopes' work should be honoured just as much.


Graphics:

I understand the vibe being expressed that it's kind of "upscaley." It does look very good, some bits fantastic, and it really does make a different to run it in full HD (which is not something I find to be true very often). But for all the high-res detail the game can show off there is an awful lot of plain colour. The trees and badniks and such are different yeah, but the overall look is definitely one of "old stuff done high-res." The end result is a little more simple than the hype, that's all. :/ If someone new to the franchise had picked this game up, that someone would have been able to recognise the scene as bizarrely empty, especially when seeing the painstaking perfection that has gone into things like bushes and trees and animation. I think it's just better to maintain the perspective that this is a high definition Sonic 2, not a reimagined Sonic 2.

With that "We're just hi-deffing it" perspective in mind, I'm happy with Sonic 2 HD's visuals. I don't need a lot of extra detail personally; it's nice just to see the game I like presented so crisp. The pressure is off the graphics for me, because it plays true.

Personally I preferred the Sonic model with the other legs. I think the Tails model is much nicer in general. I want to repeat, heh, that I think rings will never look better than this in any game ever. They are awesome.


Music:

Nothing new to say. Such a perfect balance of upgrading but not overdoing the music imo. I look forward to more of Tee's work in the other zones. The boss issue definitely needs to be fixed up imo.



Overall:

Phsyics good.
Graphics are very nice but also noticeably empty, even if Sonic 2 original didn't exist. Completely acceptable if viewed as "Sonic 2 Hi-Deffed." Maybe disappointing if expecting more.
Game execution has a few issues that need to be sorted. Most importantly I wish the frame rate could keep itself locked down.
Boss music cry.
This post has been edited by Deef: 30 March 2012 - 04:12 PM

#375 User is offline Volpino 

Posted 30 March 2012 - 04:15 PM

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I'm glad I'm not the only person with issues with the boss music. One of my friends, who is a huge Eggman/Robotnik fan got pretty upset over it, I hope that it does get fixed.

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