[P3DR0]

Okay so... I'd been watching Sonic 2 HD development for quite some time already. At first I didn't liked the game much, it just looked like Sonic 2 with MSSA filter applyied onto it, so it looks rouded and stuff. But I kept watching it's development thread here on retro, and after seeing the ideas into it, the concept arts, etecetera... I got a bit excited because it seemed like the developers were making something more than just a game with vectorized (is that even a word?) sprites in it. After watching the remake of the two Monkey Island games, I thought "Hey, maybe that's the way they're heading to... An remake, very solid to the original but with custom and more colorful graphics":



Sooooo... Imagine my disapointment when I finally got my hands into the game (I know its alpha, but whatever) and found out that was the same thing that I'd saw on it's very beginning: A remake with MSSA filter on the sprites (I know they'd been redone, but it's pratically the same feel) but now, even worst, it have Sonic with a terrible pallete (that will disappear on Chemical Plant due the horrible pallete), rings that barelly can be seen on the scenary and that's it. It's seemed that the effort was minimal besides the title screen, the tiles now look even worst because now they look lifeless and stuff.

And the worst part is, on the readme file itself says:

Quote

From the very beginning of the project, S2HD has focused on maintaining the feel that has made Sonic 2 a classic while using new tools to reimagine the original as it could have been were it made today. The game's art direction reflects this, but S2HD has also given equal attention to unseen essential elements in the physics and audio—the result of this is an unprecedented re-interpretation in high definition graphics, music, and gameplay of Sonic 2, which continues to set quality standards to this day.

Quote

using new tools to reimagine the original as it could have been were it made today

Or you guys aren't much imaginative or creative or your interpretation of "today" standarts are from a few years ago... Like ten.

Here comes my expectation of S2HD (big image) made today using only photoshop in 1~2 hours:

Spoiler

Yes, I drew a whole scene, from the scratch just to prove my point. This is how much disappointed I'm at this game. Sue me.

This post has been edited by P3DR0: 29 March 2012 - 03:27 PM

[steveswede]

AerosolSP, on 29 March 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

Okay we've come to the conclusion that LOst is a dick. What now? I highly doubt the S2HD team is going to drop everything so that another, more "open" programmer can create a new engine that doesn't reek of this supposed "dickery".

If this project was a democracy, I would vote for Taxman and the artists to join up. Maybe this would then come to consoles and other devices like phones.

[Knucklez]

I guess I should take back what I originally said about this project because...

Quote

There are minor chanages in the level design. Some of them are forced, because of the data used is not 100% like the original. Some objects have been moved.

...is the most pathetic shit I've ever heard. You mean to tell me you can't place your own objects on your own engine in their original layouts because of.. oh that's right, that's no excuse.

You're the programmer, you're the one setting objects in place, as well as blatantly adding new ones that weren't there prior in the original game, and you wanna pull that excuse out of your ass? Wow. I mean what's the point of following these fan projects when there's always someone there to screw it all up and make the rest of the contributors look like shit? The few things alone that screwed this up are all it took to completely have people lose faith in it. I'm not trying to be an asshole, because I do respect peoples' hard work, but this will never be finished. I don't think anyone is going to wait any longer on these proposed fan games, especially ones that are only trying to be visually perfect remakes of an original game. It seems like all of it is just for proof-of-concept.

This whole project was conceived in 2008 and only one level has actually been completed since. You tell me, is this worth it? No. I applaud all the hard work put in by everyone but one. The best you can do is fix everything that's wrong with EHZ and be done with it. Everyone knows it, whether they wanna admit it or not.

[ICEknight]

P3DR0, on 29 March 2012 - 03:26 PM, said:

After watching the remake of the two Monkey Island games, I thought "Hey, maybe that's the way they're heading to... An remake, very solid to the original but with custom and more colorful graphics":

My god, that's a terrible example. Just look at that horrible Guybrush, not to mention the fire also looks like it was made in a different style than the rest of the background.

Also, if I remember correctly, some of the new backgrounds in MI2 even have leftovers of eagle-like filters being applied to the original graphics before tracing over them.

So... no.

EDIT: For the record, I actually bought that remake just so I'd be able to play a talkie version with the old graphics, in SCUMMVM.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 29 March 2012 - 04:00 PM

[Overlord]

AerosolSP, on 29 March 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

What now? I highly doubt the S2HD team is going to drop everything so that another, more "open" programmer can create a new engine that doesn't reek of this supposed "dickery". So either we are going to ignore what S2HD could be because LOst is apparently being a little overzealous in protecting his (and I use the pronoun loosely) engine, or we're going to go "fuck it, I want to play S2 in HD so what the fuck ever"

Seriously you guys. DRM in a fangame is ridiculous, but boycotting a fangame because of DRM is also. You're not paying for it, after all. So in the end, if LOst and the rest of the team feel like like noone's going to play it due to this perceived dickery anyway, then why would they bother continuing? They've got actual money-making ventures to aspire towards now. All that's going to happen is that you don't get what you've wanted all this time because you wanted to protest the programmer's decision to protect his work.

I'd be less bothered about the anti-hacking DRM obfuscation if it wasn't protecting a reverse engineered engine that he didn't make for an IP that he doesn't own the rights to. Let's also not forget this is the toned-down version. There is zero excuse for the DRM in this.

[ICEknight]

EDIT: Phew, read it wrong. Disregard, please...

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 29 March 2012 - 04:09 PM

[Aerosol]

Overlord, on 29 March 2012 - 03:59 PM, said:

AerosolSP, on 29 March 2012 - 03:16 PM, said:

What now? I highly doubt the S2HD team is going to drop everything so that another, more "open" programmer can create a new engine that doesn't reek of this supposed "dickery". So either we are going to ignore what S2HD could be because LOst is apparently being a little overzealous in protecting his (and I use the pronoun loosely) engine, or we're going to go "fuck it, I want to play S2 in HD so what the fuck ever"

Seriously you guys. DRM in a fangame is ridiculous, but boycotting a fangame because of DRM is also. You're not paying for it, after all. So in the end, if LOst and the rest of the team feel like like noone's going to play it due to this perceived dickery anyway, then why would they bother continuing? They've got actual money-making ventures to aspire towards now. All that's going to happen is that you don't get what you've wanted all this time because you wanted to protest the programmer's decision to protect his work.

I'd be less bothered about the anti-hacking DRM obfuscation if it wasn't protecting a reverse engineered engine that he didn't make for an IP that he doesn't own the rights to. Let's also not forget this is the toned-down version. There is zero excuse for the DRM in this.

Trust me I get this. But I'm asking what the point in boycotting the game is if all that's going to happen is that you don't get to play it?

[Falk]

Wasn't it attempting to prevent screenshots/video capture?

edit@above: I know I'm definitely not recommending this to any of my (neckbeard) friends after what happened with that last one. (System infected, blames S2HD, blames me, somehow excused for his own stupidity in wrecking his system) That counts as a boycott of sorts, right?

This post has been edited by Falk: 29 March 2012 - 04:07 PM

[Aerosol]

Yes, that's what was said. It wouldn't allow you take videos or screenshots before.

[Flare]

I'm boycotting in the sense the laptop I'm using won't run it because it thinks it's a virus and I can't by pass it unless I uninstall the anti virus program which I can't do but cause its not my laptop.

Hope this is updated soon.

[Aerosol]

But that's not boycotting. You're not protesting anything. If you could run the game you would, so my comments aren't really directed at you.

[Flare]

I was trying to make light of the situation really. Not saying that boycotting is a silly thing but I'm think it may be a bit of an over reaction in the same fashion that the DRM was implemented.

[ancara]

I'm just gonna say it: Perhaps LOst should just finally stop being so stubborn and paranoid and just finally understand that letting your work be able to be worked on by other programmers != Erryone on the planet immediately taking it and making crappy clones of it.

Dude, you've done very well, VERY well.....we can all agree there......but seriously, with all we just saw, it's obvious you're afraid of things going lolcrazy if you let it be able to be looked into by others. I understand wanting to keep your code from being used for crappy fangames and what-not, but ya gotta realize that at some point.....ya just have to finally let your pride down and just let others help work on it. Trust me, there are various benefits to this: The project gets done faster, people get to help, and you can still be the main person responsible for the coding. If there's one thing ya got to learn, LOst.....its that a helping hand is a GOOD thing, and it will help you both get things done as well as allow you to still keep an eye on it without worrying about it not going well.

Also, about the DRM.......ya should realize that in a world where even the best DRM gets broken down in time and the assets gotten afterwards, all you're doing is harming the people who wish to see what goodies are inside, and more likely just the average joe who just wants to play the game and goof around a little with it. At the least, have some fun with it for those bein' nosy. Give 'em surprises, some stuff to keep 'em both busy and happy if ya don't want them to see your work and they try to pry.

Look, the point is......for 5 years you've been.....kind of silly with this, but I think ya can still be able to turn things around and make things awesome again. If only because I believe that if ya can do so, you can likely be able to give everyone a new, more positive opinion of you.

I dunno what'll happen next, but I figured I'd at least give reasoning a try.

[Canned Karma]

I'm glad to hear the majority of people have enjoyed the release. We knew there would be bugs people would discover that we hadn't found in our own testing. I won't even touch on the code side again because that has been beaten into the ground ad nauseam and our side of the situation has already been expressed by no less than three staff members on both the art and code areas. Suffice to say, there's more to the story and depending on how things go in the next week I'll be able to go into much more detail.

P3DRO,
You're entitled to your opinion. The fact that hardly anyone else has leveled those criticisms against us leaves me wondering if you're looking at the same game the rest of us are. What I will say is that your comments are insulting to the people who spent untold hours producing all the artwork you so casually dismiss. If you want a Sonic 2 remake done in your particular style, no one is stopping you. Far from it, given just how many Sonic fangames are represented in this forum. But give credit where credit is due. I've seen you do some great work on other project, but the arrogance of your response here is disgusting.

[Whackjood]

In a rather peculiar and hillarious turn of events. Despite playing the game successfully two times before, when I tried to start up Sonic 2 HD just now my virus scanner went beserk and nuked it on the spot. I understand that L0st's DRM is causing problems, but what could have changed on my third time opening the game to cause a problem now?

This post has been edited by Whackjood: 29 March 2012 - 05:39 PM