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Sonic 2 Level Order Your thoughts...?

#16 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 09:51 AM

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View PostShadow Fire, on 25 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

You're right. I always thought it was out of whack, like how the hell did Sonic jump from a tropical island to a chemically polluted city? There had to be some legit transition in-between.

Level transitions were only introduced in the second half of the game, with the first half making you question what's really going on.

I think a more appropriate level should go like this:

Emerald Hill > (transition deeper through the island's forests and mountains) Aquatic Ruin
Aquatic Ruin > (transition into the mountain caves) Mystic Cave
Mystic Cave > (transition up and out onto mountain peaks) Hill Top Zone
Hill Top Zone > (transition down the mountains towards nearby cities) Casino Night
Casion Night > (continue through the cities to a more industrialized area) Chemical Plant
Chemical Plant > (reach the shores of the industrialized cities) Oil Ocean
Oil Ocean > (transition into Eggman's metropolis) Metropolis
Metropolis > Sky Chase > Wing Fortress > Death Egg.

The Hill Top > Casino Night > Chemical Plant > Oil Ocean level order makes a lot of sense in that they give a day-time/night-time progression with Oil Ocean giving a finishing touch with a sun rise.

Y'know, you just posted the EXACT level order I used for Sonic: The Lost Land 2. Don't believe me? Download it and test it out. :P It's been that way for ages, and even a guy on YouTube, after seeing someone's Let's Play, commented on the excellent choice of level order.

Wow, I guess great minds do think alike. :P I saw The Lost Land 2 but never got to try it out. But I just played through it and I have to say (besides how awesome your hack is) the level order is just perfect.

Someone should make a hack with the level order rearranged to this, but that being the only alteration to the original game.

#17 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:18 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 25 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

View PostShadow Fire, on 25 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

You're right. I always thought it was out of whack, like how the hell did Sonic jump from a tropical island to a chemically polluted city? There had to be some legit transition in-between.

Level transitions were only introduced in the second half of the game, with the first half making you question what's really going on.

I think a more appropriate level should go like this:

Emerald Hill > (transition deeper through the island's forests and mountains) Aquatic Ruin
Aquatic Ruin > (transition into the mountain caves) Mystic Cave
Mystic Cave > (transition up and out onto mountain peaks) Hill Top Zone
Hill Top Zone > (transition down the mountains towards nearby cities) Casino Night
Casion Night > (continue through the cities to a more industrialized area) Chemical Plant
Chemical Plant > (reach the shores of the industrialized cities) Oil Ocean
Oil Ocean > (transition into Eggman's metropolis) Metropolis
Metropolis > Sky Chase > Wing Fortress > Death Egg.

The Hill Top > Casino Night > Chemical Plant > Oil Ocean level order makes a lot of sense in that they give a day-time/night-time progression with Oil Ocean giving a finishing touch with a sun rise.

Y'know, you just posted the EXACT level order I used for Sonic: The Lost Land 2. Don't believe me? Download it and test it out. :P It's been that way for ages, and even a guy on YouTube, after seeing someone's Let's Play, commented on the excellent choice of level order.

Wow, I guess great minds do think alike. :P I saw The Lost Land 2 but never got to try it out. But I just played through it and I have to say (besides how awesome your hack is) the level order is just perfect.

Someone should make a hack with the level order rearranged to this, but that being the only alteration to the original game.


What would one think, if one character's story, say Sonic's took the normal route (of course, with some extra stops ;) along the way *HINT* *HINT*
And another character's story taking him on a slightly different route? Say... IDK, that red guy who tends to adventure around after Sonic's story....?)

Slightly off topic, but not really... but one major difference is the change from 3 acts to 2... I prefer 2 acts. Any preferences here??

#18 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:26 AM

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View PostKingofHarts, on 25 March 2012 - 10:11 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 25 March 2012 - 09:51 AM, said:

View PostShadow Fire, on 25 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

You're right. I always thought it was out of whack, like how the hell did Sonic jump from a tropical island to a chemically polluted city? There had to be some legit transition in-between.

Level transitions were only introduced in the second half of the game, with the first half making you question what's really going on.

I think a more appropriate level should go like this:

Emerald Hill > (transition deeper through the island's forests and mountains) Aquatic Ruin
Aquatic Ruin > (transition into the mountain caves) Mystic Cave
Mystic Cave > (transition up and out onto mountain peaks) Hill Top Zone
Hill Top Zone > (transition down the mountains towards nearby cities) Casino Night
Casion Night > (continue through the cities to a more industrialized area) Chemical Plant
Chemical Plant > (reach the shores of the industrialized cities) Oil Ocean
Oil Ocean > (transition into Eggman's metropolis) Metropolis
Metropolis > Sky Chase > Wing Fortress > Death Egg.

The Hill Top > Casino Night > Chemical Plant > Oil Ocean level order makes a lot of sense in that they give a day-time/night-time progression with Oil Ocean giving a finishing touch with a sun rise.

Y'know, you just posted the EXACT level order I used for Sonic: The Lost Land 2. Don't believe me? Download it and test it out. :P It's been that way for ages, and even a guy on YouTube, after seeing someone's Let's Play, commented on the excellent choice of level order.

Wow, I guess great minds do think alike. :P I saw The Lost Land 2 but never got to try it out. But I just played through it and I have to say (besides how awesome your hack is) the level order is just perfect.

Someone should make a hack with the level order rearranged to this, but that being the only alteration to the original game.


What would one think, if one character's story, say Sonic's took the normal route (of course, with some extra stops ;) along the way *HINT* *HINT*
And another character's story taking him on a slightly different route? Say... IDK, that red guy who tends to adventure around after Sonic's story....?)

Hmmm.. doesn't sound bad at all. You'd just have to figure out how to make a connection between the two... maybe Knuckles' route is the true one? But he derails Sonic off course in random directions, forcing him to find his way back on track after every detour?

And you should already know Knuckles' last level would have to be Metropolis... with Silver Sonic as his final boss, but at a far higher level of difficulty. Ehhh?

#19 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:38 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 25 March 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Hmmm.. doesn't sound bad at all. You'd just have to figure out how to make a connection between the two... maybe Knuckles' route is the true one? But he derails Sonic off course in random directions, forcing him to find his way back on track after every detour?

And you should already know Knuckles' last level would have to be Metropolis... with Silver Sonic as his final boss, but at a far higher level of difficulty. Ehhh?


You are thinking pretty close to the same wavelength as me... I would route connections between the zones for both guys. However, Knuckles won't be derailing anything for Sonic until the Floating Angel Island zones. That said, I plan on bringing in someone else as a little bit of a cameo to make up for it... Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of, Sonic has the original route, and later on in Knuckles story, he, not knowing anywhere outside of Angel Island, winds up on the longer, more difficult route, that has the different, out-of-sequence level order... to play to the fact that he is outside his familiar territory... and it being Knuckles who has to find his way, instead of Sonic.

As for Knuckles final Westside Island zone, you're on the right track, but I'm thinking of a certain 1-act detour after Metropolis that Sonic doesn't go through... and No, there won't be a Silver Sonic waiting. I've got something else in mind...

#20 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:43 AM

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View PostKingofHarts, on 25 March 2012 - 10:38 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 25 March 2012 - 10:26 AM, said:

Hmmm.. doesn't sound bad at all. You'd just have to figure out how to make a connection between the two... maybe Knuckles' route is the true one? But he derails Sonic off course in random directions, forcing him to find his way back on track after every detour?

And you should already know Knuckles' last level would have to be Metropolis... with Silver Sonic as his final boss, but at a far higher level of difficulty. Ehhh?


You are thinking pretty close to the same wavelength as me... I would route connections between the zones for both guys. However, Knuckles won't be derailing anything for Sonic until the Floating Angel Island zones. That said, I plan on bringing in someone else as a little bit of a cameo to make up for it... Anyway, I was thinking more along the lines of, Sonic has the original route, and later on in Knuckles story, he, not knowing anywhere outside of Angel Island, winds up on the longer, more difficult route, that has the different, out-of-sequence level order... to play to the fact that he is outside his familiar territory... and it being Knuckles who has to find his way, instead of Sonic.

As for Knuckles final Westside Island zone, you're on the right track, but I'm thinking of a certain 1-act detour after Metropolis that Sonic doesn't go through... and No, there won't be a Silver Sonic waiting. I've got something else in mind...

I didn't know how else to put it, but you got it spot on. This would be pretty interesting.

#21 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 25 March 2012 - 10:46 AM

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Well, provided I can get this goddamned GML engine working up to snuff, so to speak, its in the works.

#22 User is offline bluejayfusion 

Posted 26 March 2012 - 05:23 PM

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View PostKingofHarts, on 24 March 2012 - 10:37 AM, said:

...out of all 3 games, Sonic 2 really does have the WORST level order layout of the three... It just doesn't feel like the levels are in the order they should be...

... or is the level order just fine, and I'm looking too deep into things that are probably not even there?


Sonic 2 is perfect, as far as I'm concerned. Easily my favorite of the trilogy. I like that Chemical Plant comes out of nowhere.

After all,

- Planet Mobius doesn't make any sense- cough cough, flying islands, two tailed foxes, cough cough.

- If Robotnik is ruthlessly industrializing the planet, why wouldn't there be chemical plants next to natural areas?


With some scene transitions, like in the later games, it would probably make perfect sense. Consider what Sonic 3 & Knuckles would be without the transitions. Flying Battery and Carnival Night would be completely non-sequitur.

But then again, I prefer all the levels in Sonic 2 over Sonic 3, so I guess the odd juxtapositions don't bother me as much.

#23 User is offline Vaiyt 

Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:17 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Emerald Hill > (transition deeper through the island's forests and mountains) Aquatic Ruin
Aquatic Ruin > (transition into the mountain caves) Mystic Cave
Mystic Cave > (transition up and out onto mountain peaks) Hill Top Zone
Hill Top Zone > (transition down the mountains towards nearby cities) Casino Night
Casion Night > (continue through the cities to a more industrialized area) Chemical Plant
Chemical Plant > (reach the shores of the industrialized cities) Oil Ocean
Oil Ocean > (transition into Eggman's metropolis) Metropolis
Metropolis > Sky Chase > Wing Fortress > Death Egg.

I would only switch Mystic Cave and Hill Top around, because I see Mystic Cave's railroad theme leading to the city. Dust Hill would sit nicely between MCZ and CNZ to further the Vegas parallels.

#24 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 28 March 2012 - 03:51 AM

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View PostVaiyt, on 28 March 2012 - 03:17 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 24 March 2012 - 11:16 AM, said:

Emerald Hill > (transition deeper through the island's forests and mountains) Aquatic Ruin
Aquatic Ruin > (transition into the mountain caves) Mystic Cave
Mystic Cave > (transition up and out onto mountain peaks) Hill Top Zone
Hill Top Zone > (transition down the mountains towards nearby cities) Casino Night
Casion Night > (continue through the cities to a more industrialized area) Chemical Plant
Chemical Plant > (reach the shores of the industrialized cities) Oil Ocean
Oil Ocean > (transition into Eggman's metropolis) Metropolis
Metropolis > Sky Chase > Wing Fortress > Death Egg.

I would only switch Mystic Cave and Hill Top around, because I see Mystic Cave's railroad theme leading to the city. Dust Hill would sit nicely between MCZ and CNZ to further the Vegas parallels.

Love the Dust hill/Casino Night suggestion.
EDIT: Maybe Dust Hill after Casino Night, to separate it from Chemical Plant?

Anyway... switching hill top and Mystic Cave, I dunno about that. You kinda want the extra separation between HTZ and EHZ... as it's been pointed out in this thread already.
This post has been edited by KingofHarts: 28 March 2012 - 03:53 AM

#25 User is offline SSE 

Posted 13 April 2012 - 06:56 PM

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If I were to redo the level order, I would do it like this:

1) Emerald Hill
2) Aquatic Ruins
3) Mystic Cave
4) Oil Ocean
5) Chemical Plant
6) Casino Night
7) Metropolis
8) Hilltop
9) Sky Chase
10) Wing Fortress
11) Death Egg.

After you run through the hills, you come to some ruins. Then you find a cave that leads to an oil rig. After leaving the rig, you find the plant where all the chemicals and the oil are being prosessed. Then you wander into the city. Then you find the big city/factory. Then you leave the city and climb the mountain to catch the flying fort. Then he gets onto the Death Egg. 4-7 may be outplaced a little bit.

#26 User is offline Shaun Shikeishuu 

Posted 13 April 2012 - 08:53 PM

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I actually agree with what Keith Stack said and think the level order is fine the way it is. I wouldn't want to play all the natural levels back to back and then all the city/industrial levels back to back. I like a bit of variety and don't think it is all that far fetched for factories and such to be near forested areas.

Though since someone mentioned S3&K I'd like to mention that I found Carnival Night Zone to be completely out of place. Clearly the previous level and the level that follow are mountainous regions so why is there a random amusement park up in the mountains? Assuming Eggman built it you have to questions his reasons why as well as how he built it so fast. Clearly he's busy trying to fix and re-launch the Death Egg all while dealing with Sonic and keeping up his facade with Knuckles. So how does he have time to build an amusement park and for what purpose could it possibility serve?

#27 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 13 April 2012 - 09:12 PM

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View PostShaun Shikeishuu, on 13 April 2012 - 08:53 PM, said:

I actually agree with what Keith Stack said and think the level order is fine the way it is. I wouldn't want to play all the natural levels back to back and then all the city/industrial levels back to back. I like a bit of variety and don't think it is all that far fetched for factories and such to be near forested areas.

Though since someone mentioned S3&K I'd like to mention that I found Carnival Night Zone to be completely out of place. Clearly the previous level and the level that follow are mountainous regions so why is there a random amusement park up in the mountains? Assuming Eggman built it you have to questions his reasons why as well as how he built it so fast. Clearly he's busy trying to fix and re-launch the Death Egg all while dealing with Sonic and keeping up his facade with Knuckles. So how does he have time to build an amusement park and for what purpose could it possibility serve?


He just wants to have fun... THERE'S ALWAYS TIME FOR FUN!!! :v:

I bet that fat fuck had fun when we all got stuck at that barrel... Curse you Robotnik!
This post has been edited by KingofHarts: 13 April 2012 - 09:13 PM

#28 User is offline jawn.sith 

Posted 16 April 2012 - 10:13 AM

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The levels never made sense to me either, but getting to that speed in Chemical Plant that early on was so worth it.

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