[SpeedStarTMQ]

Giving Knuckles a higher (or same height as everyone else) jump in Sonic Advance didn't hurt his gameplay because the level design didn't need to accomodate this. Even in the originals there's barely anything that Knuckles can't do that others can.

I think Knuckles best plays how he does in all the games he stars in. He glides, he punches, he gets to areas other characters can't through rock or the air. He can dig, he can even sometimes swim.

What you've described about your ideal Knuckles gameplay is kinda what his style already is. I disagree entirely that he shouldn't be able to run fast as often- because he can and he should. If you're going to redesign his gameplay, perhaps put a few more climbing sections in which require skill to manouvre, and maybe put some more secret areas in with rock covering etc. Apart from that I can't really say his gameplay hasn't always been suited to him, because every game I play of Knuckles- even treasure hunting- revolved around a similar premise and played well.

[Nova]

Knuckles was an awesome character in Sonic 3, the same way Shadow was an awesome character in Sonic Adventure 2.

I'll explain; Knuckles was great in Sonic 3 (And by extension, Sonic & Knuckles, too) because he was badass. The chuckling, the buttons, the explosions, the long, red hair... It all added up to, at the time, a much more interesting character than Sonic. That may be a controversial opinion, but back when the game was new, I honestly preferred playing as Knuckles. The exploration involved, the mixed-up boss fights... It was all so awesome and holding him off as a playable character until Sonic & Knuckles hit was an absolute masterstroke. Now, he's just a reused sidekick character with no real value other than "durr strong". They could have done so much more with him and he's now one of my least favourite characters.

(On the Shadow thing, though - I liked Shadow in SA2. His story was tragic and he had a fairly decent reason to be in the game. Now? Just spinning dollars for Sega. Should have stayed 'dead').

[KingofHarts]

I am sorry, this is totally unrelated... BUT Nova, ur siggy is just awesome. I love it

Anywho... IMO Metal Sonic > Knuckles.

This post has been edited by KingofHarts: 16 March 2012 - 09:18 AM

[Dark Sonic]

KingofHarts, on 16 March 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I am sorry, this is totally unrelated... BUT Nova, ur siggy is just awesome. I love it

Anywho... IMO Metal Sonic > Knuckles.

I agree with you on that. However they serve different roles. Knuckles is a friendly Rival, and Metal Sonic is an enemy. And Shadow is in between, he's just a dick. I don't know what Silver is. Probably the in between of Shadow and Knuckles.

[KingofHarts]

Dark Sonic, on 16 March 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

KingofHarts, on 16 March 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I am sorry, this is totally unrelated... BUT Nova, ur siggy is just awesome. I love it

Anywho... IMO Metal Sonic > Knuckles.

I agree with you on that. However they serve different roles. Knuckles is a friendly Rival, and Metal Sonic is an enemy. And Shadow is in between, he's just a dick. I don't know what Silver is. Probably the in between of Shadow and Knuckles.

That right there is EXACTLY why I like him better than Knuckles, Shadow or Silver... They aren't gonna turn him into one of Sonic's goofy sidekick allies. He is the one true permanent rival of Sonic, aside from Eggman, and has come closest to defeating him. Besides... he is far and away different from the mold that Sonic, Shadow and Silver came from.... Not that those other 3 are cookie cutter clones of each other, but to me Metal Sonic stands out the most. To this day, I've been waiting for a hack/fangame to implement him properly, and you know something... I just might have to attempt it myself.

EDIT: Oh, that and he's Classic. More classic than Knuckles, and I don't even need to include Shadow or Silver in the argument, do I?

This post has been edited by KingofHarts: 17 March 2012 - 12:11 AM

[TheInvisibleSun]

KingofHarts, on 17 March 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

Dark Sonic, on 16 March 2012 - 10:05 AM, said:

KingofHarts, on 16 March 2012 - 09:17 AM, said:

I am sorry, this is totally unrelated... BUT Nova, ur siggy is just awesome. I love it

Anywho... IMO Metal Sonic > Knuckles.

I agree with you on that. However they serve different roles. Knuckles is a friendly Rival, and Metal Sonic is an enemy. And Shadow is in between, he's just a dick. I don't know what Silver is. Probably the in between of Shadow and Knuckles.

He is the one true permanent rival of Sonic, aside from Eggman, and has come closest to defeating him.

Well, I'm not too sure about that. Shadow came pretty close to killing Sonic in SA2. Not to mention that Shadow did actually kill Sonic in a couple of the alternate endings in his game.

That said, Metal personally seems to be Sonic's truest Arch-Rival, because his mission doesn't just clash with Sonic's, (like what usually happens with Shadow, or Silver), but he exists only to best and/or destroy Sonic; he is completely Anti-Sonic. Its why he was made, and why he keeps being rebuilt.

[BystanderLC]

I don't think Metal gets any repairs.

I think Knuckles should have an action where he throws a punch for a short distance, but keep run momentum. I've always like how Knuckles had some sort fiery element in the Sonic Advance series.

[Aerosol]

It's been stated a few times that Metal Sonic has been rebuilt from time to time.

[Putmalk]

I'm enjoying the discussion about Knuckles and Metal Sonic.

But if I may pose another question, let's say hypothetically they make S4E3, and Knuckles was included in the game, how would you like them to implement him?

[RuRi]

When I first played Sonic 3, I absolutely hated Knuckles. Some guy who steals all your Emeralds and tries to screw you over at every turn? gogDAMN

But when I play Sonic 3 nowadays, I love seeing Knuckles, his chuckle is what makes the Classic Knuckles so awesome. After the first boss, once he breaks the bridge, I jump off just in time and then use Tails to fly up to him just to watch him chuckle forever.

And I really liked how Knuckles played in the Advance games, he still felt unique compared to the other characters, and even in Sonic Adventure 1 he was pretty fun to play as. I would also say SA2, but the fact that you can only detect one emerald piece at a time just really stretches the level to where it's kinda boring, espcially on the later levels.

Also I don't care what anyone says, his theme in SA1 is the best character theme in that game.

But lately it's really sad to see him how he is now, just some support character that gets tricked even easier. Atleast in SA1 he actually sorta had a good reason to think Sonic was taking the emerald pieces, when he sees from a distance something Emerald coloured in Sonic's hand.

And in S4E3, I'd like him to be like he was in the classics: a complete and utter dick. Although once you complete the 3rd episode, he becomes playable for all the episodes. For the tag team parts such as flying over ledges, Knuckles can do pretty much on his own, via gliding and climbing. that part where there's lots of snow you gotta roll through in S4E2 you could dig through it, acting like Sonic using the drill power in Sonic colours. And you could probably beat those multi-hit enemies with one hit, since Knuckles is so strong.

[Aerosol]

I think the problem we're having with Knuckles now is that he doesn't have another role to play. Unless he's thwarting Sonic because someone managed to convince him it was the right thing to do, or unless the ME has shattered again, there's really no reason for him to be anywhere. Sonic Adventure was his last strong role. He still had personality in it. SA2 is when that personality started to fizzle, and Sonic Heroes is when it faded away. Though I did enjoy him in Secret Rings as Sinbad. His personality was hidden underneath all of that Sinbad, and it was amusing to watch him go. But that still begs the question, why is he ever involved in anything anymore?

How many times can Knuckles really be tricked before suspension of disbelief just doesn't cut it any more? How many contrived reasons can there really be for the Master Emerald to break into itty bitty pieces or otherwise be in danger? There's just nothing for him to do than tag along with the fast guy and the smart kid, occasionally breaking boulders when the other two's new super powers (wtf Sonic can run through walls like Knuckles now) render him more and more useless.

Knuckles just needs another role to play.

[ICEknight]

Ah, Knuckles... He was the Vegeta of the Sonic series until they actually put Vegetas' hair on a hedgehog.

[Elektro-Omega]

ICEknight, on 17 March 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Ah, Knuckles... He was the Vegeta of the Sonic series until they actually put Vegetas' hair on a hedgehog.

Basically the Piccolo of the series.

From what I figure.

Tails = Krillin
Knuckles = Picollo
Shadow = Vegeta
Silver = Trunks

anyway, on topic: Knuckles has definately been under appreciated recently and I feel he should be playable and have more of the limelight.

[Clutch]

AerosolSP, on 17 March 2012 - 03:38 PM, said:

I think the problem we're having with Knuckles now is that he doesn't have another role to play. Unless he's thwarting Sonic because someone managed to convince him it was the right thing to do, or unless the ME has shattered again, there's really no reason for him to be anywhere. Sonic Adventure was his last strong role. He still had personality in it. SA2 is when that personality started to fizzle, and Sonic Heroes is when it faded away. Though I did enjoy him in Secret Rings as Sinbad. His personality was hidden underneath all of that Sinbad, and it was amusing to watch him go. But that still begs the question, why is he ever involved in anything anymore?

How many times can Knuckles really be tricked before suspension of disbelief just doesn't cut it any more? How many contrived reasons can there really be for the Master Emerald to break into itty bitty pieces or otherwise be in danger? There's just nothing for him to do than tag along with the fast guy and the smart kid, occasionally breaking boulders when the other two's new super powers (wtf Sonic can run through walls like Knuckles now) render him more and more useless.

Knuckles just needs another role to play.

Despite what I said earlier about his obligation to the Emerald being easy to explain away, I totally agree. It's a little odd nowadays that (especially when he's not playable) they can't seem to find anything for Knuckles to do other than give him a sitcom-ish "Big Angry Stupid Guy" role (which doesn't feel right with a guy who was fairly low-key in the Adventure games) or just have him show up and do nothing (almost nothing he says in Sonic 06 couldn't have been given to Tails).

[BarkingChaos]

Knuckles has always been my favorite character. When I had Sonic 3, I always played as Knuckles in the multiplayer, even though he was essentially a clone of Sonic. It makes me sad I never had the fortune of owning Sonic and Knuckles. I probably didn't even know it existed when I was younger. The first time I actually played it was on Sonic Mega Collection and it was a total dream come true. Well, Knuckles in Sonic 2 was a dream come true since I could play as my favorite character in my favorite classic Sonic game, but that's not really point.

Its sad that Sega can't seem to find much to do with him. I personally would like to see him in a mix of his Sonic Adventure stages with your typical 3D sonic stages. Finding emerald shards was rather clunky and the radar didn't really help much. Stages where you race towards a goal like Sonic, but have the level designed to accommodate for Knuckle's gliding and wall climbing abilities. Though I admit that probably would not work in practice.