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Knuckles

#1 User is offline Putmalk 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 06:42 PM

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Hey, everyone.

Knuckles is my favorite character in Sonic, by far. I loved how he handled in Sonic 3 and Knuckles (probably one of the best games ever made, imo). His gliding ability, mixed in with his low jumping capability, made him a very fun character to play and very unique to the series. In Sonic Advance 1, they gave him a higher jump which I think hurt the character's uniqueness (plus removing his special paths, and stuff), but he was still my favorite to play.

Actually, I really loved the alternate paths in S3&K. Playing Knuckles was like playing an entirely new game from Sonic's. However, I think some of the paths wasted his talents (see: CNZ1/2, etc.). Some of his sections were focused on speed, which I don't think fit Knuckles' role well at all. However, even with that, Knuckles' routes were harder and less rewarding, but the challenge was very entertaining to play and I loved every minute of it.

I'm going to be redesigning his sections in S3&K. What do you think the best playstyle for Knuckles is? I personally think Knuckles should focus on climbing, avoiding spikes, and platforming, with very few speed sections mixed in. Also, I think he should be given access to shortcuts/alternate routes that take advantage of his climbing ability, and entering Sonic's paths occasionally.

What's your opinion on the matter? How should Knuckles play?

#2 User is offline Toasty 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:02 PM

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Knuckles was personally my least favorite character. When I was a kid I used to say "this guy can't jump high" and I always preferred Sonic or Tails due to the obvious (they're superior.) Knuckles had bad level design as well Marble Garden act 2s boss was a joke and it seems like Carnival Night and Sky Sanctuary were as well. He only ever had an advantage once in Sonic 2 when he could glide through act 1 of Chemical Plant and collect 3 free guy monitors.

Besides sucking as a playable character I like him though.

#3 User is offline GT Koopa 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:18 PM

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So who here wanted a Knuckles Robotnik boss in Carnival Night? Or a special one in Lava Reef act 2? Something like Marble Garden's? What would they have been like?

#4 User is offline Mr. Mash 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:18 PM

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When I was a kid I liked knuckles because he was a badass. It's cool to find his extra little bits of levels in S3&K, and I like the way he plays when you put him in sonic's levels in SADX
I can't quite grasp his personality though. He's been an innocent islander, a bitter loner, he's been wise, gullible, brave, determined, but also a cheery member of Sonic's team in heroes. I haven't seen it in years, but I remember thinking he was cool in the OVA.
I also think his voice actor should have a Jamaican accent.

#5 User is offline Clutch 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:25 PM

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He was my favorite character to play as in any 2D game where the option was available. He had more maneuverability than Sonic, but climbing on walls and only being able to glide down felt better than flying around as Tails because I could engage the environment a bit more rather than being tempted to fly over the entire thing until I hit the wall. I'm sorely missing getting to play as him in the newer games.

I also don't really give a shit about everyone who says he shouldn't be playable when he's not after the Master Emerald. It's easy to fanwank away, but I think people just prefer to bitch.

#6 User is offline RGamer2009 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:38 PM

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Ahhh, Knuckles. He is one of the main characters that I feel has been wasted in his potential in the newer games.

I felt that Sonic Unleashed would have worked a million times better with Knuckles in place of the Werehog, and I still standby this. It would have been Sonic & Knuckles 2. Just add more running sections, some breakable walls to change up the paths, and heavily refine the Werehog moveset to Knuckles' strengths, gliding and punches to quickly (NOT tediously) attack foes and move forward with the occasional (NOT every level's miniboss) bigger enemy being in the way that you would have to stop and hammer away at. His gliding and climbing movesets would have allowed for much better exploration and better overall level design. Why they didn't do this still baffles me.

He definitely can work in the sense of alternate paths, but don't forget that Knuckles is capable of running fast too. Make some paths he can take quickly as well as slowly. Have some running after diverging to a new path via a slower section.

#7 User is offline Putmalk 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

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Here is a portion of Angel Island I'm building. Sorry I can't embed it to the post, I'm a trial user here and I don't think they'll let me do that yet.

http://imageshack.us.../azsection.jpg/

Anywho, this is an example of how I want to design Knuckles' parts. Lots of slow, gliding/climbing parts make up the act, but there are sections where you get can get speed as well. My sections are definitely hard. That extra life can only be reached by gliding at the start of the hill to the left, landing on the loop and climbing up the platform.

Now, replying to the other posts, yeah, I think Knuckles' potential was definitely wasted with future titles. Now, they don't even put him in games, except as some cheesy comic relief. I really miss when he was badass like in the Genesis games (stupid, but badass. :P). And yes, his story in S3&K needed a lot of work. I'm looking at these map and they made the game with him in mind, but restricted the amount of space he has available. This leads to...uh...shorter and less imaginative paths. I wanted to use more space but there wasn't any more room! I think they should have expanded his areas out more, so the player doesn't rush through the acts so fast.

I think Knuckles should had had completely original bosses. Bosses that complement his abilities, that forced the player to glide into the boss. Would've been more fun that just low-jump versions of the regular bosses.
This post has been edited by Putmalk: 15 March 2012 - 07:47 PM

#8 User is offline Mr. Mash 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 07:52 PM

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View PostRGamer2009, on 15 March 2012 - 07:38 PM, said:

Ahhh, Knuckles. He is one of the main characters that I feel has been wasted in his potential in the newer games.

I felt that Sonic Unleashed would have worked a million times better with Knuckles in place of the Werehog, and I still standby this. It would have been Sonic & Knuckles 2. Just add more running sections, some breakable walls to change up the paths, and heavily refine the Werehog moveset to Knuckles' strengths, gliding and punches to quickly (NOT tediously) attack foes and move forward with the occasional (NOT every level's miniboss) bigger enemy being in the way that you would have to stop and hammer away at. His gliding and climbing movesets would have allowed for much better exploration and better overall level design. Why they didn't do this still baffles me.

He definitely can work in the sense of alternate paths, but don't forget that Knuckles is capable of running fast too. Make some paths he can take quickly as well as slowly. Have some running after diverging to a new path via a slower section.

Yeah, I don't see why Chip couldn't just have been Tails, and the Werehog couldn't have been replaced with Knuckles.
Oh wait

#9 User is offline MattManAGES 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:02 PM

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Is there any possible way that you could add Tails in to follow around Knuckles? I know it's pretty much pointless due to his ability to fly/glide, but you could probably find some gimmik to use tails with (Like maybe certin boss battles and such). In any case, I just love watching Tails work with Knuckles, it always seems like such a perfect match to me.

#10 User is offline Putmalk 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:06 PM

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View PostMattManAGES, on 15 March 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Is there any possible way that you could add Tails in to follow around Knuckles? I know it's pretty much pointless due to his ability to fly/glide, but you could probably find some gimmik to use tails with (Like maybe certin boss battles and such). In any case, I just love watching Tails work with Knuckles, it always seems like such a perfect match to me.


It's been done...Sonic 2 Heroes, I'm looking at you...but I have no experience modifying Sonic games whatsoever. You should have seen the frustration I had trying to get SonEd2 working correctly. I don't know how to access the Sonic files at all, or how they coded it (if it's hex, you can forget about me understanding it. Sorry. :(

#11 User is offline jasonchrist 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:07 PM

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I loved Knuckles back in the 3K days! When Sonic 3 came out, it was painful seeing this new character and not being able to play as him. When Sonic and Knuckles came out I was like "WOW! He can CLIMB! He can GLIDE! WAAAY better than Sonic" and I was utterly thrilled. However... I was very disappointed playing Sonic and Knuckles at just how damn short Knuckles game is, but connecting with Sonic 3 kinda remedied that and breathed new life into the experience.

But honestly? The newness of Knuckles vanished quite quickly for me, and a few short weeks later to this very day, 90% of the time I played as either Sonic or Tails.

#12 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:10 PM

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I love Knuckles. He's my favorite character after Metal Sonic. I simply like the character, and god I miss playing as him. And seeing his role become less and less significant upsets me, especially because Amy is becoming more and more prominent. I long for the day when Knuckles has some gameplay that's good, perhaps a werehog lite with more platforming and less fighting. Or even just Sonic's SA1 levels. Who cares. I just want to run around as Knuckles again.

Not seeing classic Knuckles in Generations was a HUGE fuck you. Knuckles is only important because of the classics. To not have the important counterpart is madness. Same applies for Amy, but to a lesser extent.

#13 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:34 PM

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Knuckles is cool, but he and Rouge ruined whatever enjoyment I could have managed out of SA2: Battle (played it the other day, spent usually 10 minutes for each level because of how the level layouts work so shittily with a single-emerald radar).

Otherwise he's generally pretty fun to play.

#14 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 15 March 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

I long for the day when Knuckles has some gameplay that's good, perhaps a werehog lite with more platforming and less fighting. Or even just Sonic's SA1 levels. Who cares. I just want to run around as Knuckles again.


Or his SA1 levels, made slightly more linear with an actual goal ring (and maybe a compass to keep one from getting totally lost on stages like Red Mountain), with searching for other things (power-ups, emerald shards, secrets, hidden stages/areas/paths etc.) being left as options not required for stage/game completion. Collecting most/all of them could unlock extras, or even a playable Rouge/Chaos, and maybe more stages/acts.
This post has been edited by TheInvisibleSun: 15 March 2012 - 08:39 PM

#15 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 09:14 PM

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View PostMattManAGES, on 15 March 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Is there any possible way that you could add Tails in to follow around Knuckles? I know it's pretty much pointless due to his ability to fly/glide, but you could probably find some gimmik to use tails with (Like maybe certin boss battles and such). In any case, I just love watching Tails work with Knuckles, it always seems like such a perfect match to me.


I've seen it a couple times. It can easily be done.
One thing you can do is have separate enclosed spaces where Knuckles needs Tails to fly him high enough to reach certain things. Or if you use Tails to fly Knuckles to Sonic's paths, modify Sonic's paths so Knuckles can't reach some things due to his jump height. Tails could come in handy here.
I'm also picturing a modified MGZ Eggman boss (The real one) armored up so that Knuckles has to leap from Tails and glide into him.

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