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"Sonic's shitty friends"

#16 User is offline MattManAGES 

Posted 26 February 2012 - 08:15 PM

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While I would definently love to have Tails and Knuckles back as playable characters, I think we'd be fine without all the others. Honestly it's kinda nice that SEGA layed off them,
because it has allowed them to focus more on the gameplay and not just some completely boring and convoluted plot that goes on forever with half-assed gameplay that just seems
thrown in. I'd hate to have another game like sonic shuffle( Although that was just a one time thing, or a fluke, if you will).

#17 User is offline Kogen 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:44 AM

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Sonic's shittiest friend is Takashi Iizuka.

#18 User is offline Caniad Bach 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 08:29 AM

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View PostKogen, on 27 February 2012 - 02:44 AM, said:

Sonic's shittiest friend is Takashi Iizuka.


Damn. I laughed XD

#19 User is offline Arf 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 11:51 AM

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Stages are too long and consume too much dev time as Sonic alone. And then on top of that adding extra paths and rebalancing them for T & K? I'd rather have stages designed to play with the intended character. Super Meat Boy had a billion characters, but the core game was designed for Meat Boy, so playing as any other character made it impossibly frustrating. Fuck this noise.

#20 User is offline The Game Collector 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:10 PM

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It seems like the other characters in Sonic games are pretty much in the same dilemma as the other Kongs: Dixie, Kiddy, Tiny, Chunky, Lanky and DK Jr. It was cool when we got to use them, but they really only appeared in one or two main games or in spinoffs. The difference is that I haven't seen any hacks where Dixie or Kiddy was hacked into DKC1, or where Donkey was hacked into 2 or 3.

#21 User is offline Hybrid Project Alpha 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:20 PM

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I always liked having all kinds of different moves and play styles and I'm really sad Sega decided to side with the "Sonic only" crowd for the past few years

#22 User is offline JohnBoyAdvance 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:23 PM

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I don't actually mind 9 out of 10 of Sonic's shitty friends. I know that is a bit of a taboo.

I do think the trouble is that they kept on adding new playable characters when they didn't get Sonic 100% right. And ever since the Sonic 2K6 clusterfuck, I do think they did do the right thing by making the franchise "Sonic only" again. Although I would have little cameos of other characters in Unleashed/Colours (Kinda like the Colours DS/Generations system of everyone basically saying "hi") While maybe thinking about slowly adding other playable characters (I mean hell Shadow and Blaze would be easy to put in the current modern Sonic)

I really do miss playing as Knuckles in games though. In my mind Knuckles (Possibly Rouge and Espio too) could work in a big 3D platformer/freeroamer/sandbox game now.

#23 User is offline Kogen 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 12:43 PM

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For me I am not against other characters at all, I just hate childish ones, be it Cream the Rabbit for 3 year old girls or Silver the Hedgehog for 12 year old DBZ fans.

Make it sensible and focus on the main established cast, then everything will be fine.

I am not sure why people disregard quality when judging something new. New is good if the new content is good and appropriate. Pretty basic.

#24 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 01:59 PM

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View PostArf, on 27 February 2012 - 11:51 AM, said:

Stages are too long and consume too much dev time as Sonic alone. And then on top of that adding extra paths and rebalancing them for T & K? I'd rather have stages designed to play with the intended character. Super Meat Boy had a billion characters, but the core game was designed for Meat Boy, so playing as any other character made it impossibly frustrating. Fuck this noise.


Wouldn't it take more development time to make 18 individual character specific stages, set of objects, set of enemies and separate art (considering there are 3 characters), than to just make 6 highly versatile, and detailed stages that would accommodate different characters' abilities in its geometry and design? I would definitely want the latter (regardless of how long it would take). I greatly valued stages like Speed Highway, Red Mountain and Sky Deck, because both Sonic, Tails and Knuckles had different ways of navigating each stage. At Dawn specifically, had a ridiculous amount of ways one could reach Sonic's goal; as Sonic you could go by street, or by the roof tops and building walls if you were good enough, and as Knuckles you could climb around and explore the place (though I wish that his stages had an actual end goal). At certain points in Tails' version of Speed Highway, I felt a very different experience than with Sonic, because there were super-platformy sections that utilized his flight ability (flight rings notwithstanding), yet I knew visually that I was still in Speed Highway. Red Mountain did this well by having places that Sonic could run freely, while still giving Knuckles much room to go anywhere he could glide or climb; those two components coexisted beautifully within one stage. I can also imagine that it would have been fun to fly around and take shortcuts in the stage as Tails, as there was much room for his flight as well. The concept of Sonic's stages being longer (or his 'goal' being further into the stage, in some cases) should also be carried over, to make up for Sonic's now ridiculous speed difference over most characters. This way, the Tails and Knux stages would be kept from being boring and too drawn out.

Also, Viewtiful Joe had 4 (or 5 on PS2) playable characters in the original, and it was never frustrating (perhaps just a bit more difficult) going through the game as anyone other than Joe, because every other character's gameplay was basically Joe's (even down to the stages and their order), but with some slightly different moves and stats/abilities. This is a very possible thing to do if done correctly, and based on your account of the game (I have never played it), Super Meat Boy apparently did it wrong.

#25 User is offline Hero Chao 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 02:36 PM

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I can understand where the "Sonic's shitty friends" expression arises from, and rightfully so; the extensive cast of characters in the franchise was abused multiple times for the sake of wider audience appeal and ultimately larger sales. However, like many others, I wouldn't mind the use of the new characters as long as the story calls for it and is enhanced by their presence. The best example of this yet (while not containing characters beyond the original four,) is Sonic Unleashed.

Simply Tails and Amy, not even Knuckles was used, as his presence would have seemed shoehorned in at best, like it has been in recent titles. No extra characters showed up to "help" Sonic because he didn't need any help. Sure, reasons could have been fabricated for Knuckles or Shadow to show up, but looking at how Sonic Unleashed's story worked as a finished product, their presence would have probably only served to take screen time and importance away from Sonic and his struggle with becoming a werehog as well as his friendship with Chip, the new character. That's probably also why, while Tails and Amy were present, their interaction and participation in the larger percentage of the game's events was downplayed. Sonic and Chip's friendship was allowed to take center stage.

TLDR; Any number of Sonic's extensive cast of characters in a game with specific relevance and importance = good. A large supporting cast to busy-up the screen and pad a lacking story = bad.

#26 User is offline FinalBeyond 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:20 PM

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Absolutely agreed with the above. I don't particularly want to see Knuckles if he isn't relevant to the plot. If they can figure out an excellent plot that takes his character and his role in the series (as in, 'guardian of Angel Island and the Master Emerald' rather than 'deep voiced friend of Sonic') into account, then fine, but sticking him in as playable and just saying 'emerald's broken!' to shoehorn him in because he was there in the 90s seems rather futile. Same with any other character. If they really do add to the game/plotline by their presence, then go ahead. I'd happily see a return from Silver in the main series if it made sense for him to be there.

#27 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:34 PM

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It's hard for me to think of the Sonic cast as extensive when the problem was that there were only about 15 or so characters overall who got shoehorned into everything irrespective of whether or not it might conflict with their characterization or add much to the game (hi, Knuckles in Sonic Heroes and 2006 and the Advance games and whatnot!).

If anything the problem was the cast wasn't diverse enough, so that there was some actual variety and not those same 12 guys we saw the previous game anyway and haven't been developed as characters since then. And of course that they didn't play much different than sonic and they had to be playable.

#28 User is offline Ashram 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:40 PM

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View PostmuteKi, on 27 February 2012 - 03:34 PM, said:

It's hard for me to think of the Sonic cast as extensive when the problem was that there were only about 15 or so characters overall who got shoehorned into everything irrespective of whether or not it might conflict with their characterization or add much to the game (hi, Knuckles in Sonic Heroes and 2006 and the Advance games and whatnot!).

If anything the problem was the cast wasn't diverse enough, so that there was some actual variety and not those same 12 guys we saw the previous game anyway and haven't been developed as characters since then. And of course that they didn't play much different than sonic and they had to be playable.


Well, to be fair on the Sonic Advance front at least 1 and 3 had places from Angel Island, so we know it was threatened. 2 is kinda iffy, I'd say Sky Canyon is probably Angel Island.

#29 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 03:59 PM

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I don't give a rats ass how Knuckles is involved in the plot. Make him an unlockable character or something. If he's fun to play as then by all means I say allow him to be in the game.

#30 User is offline Puto 

Posted 27 February 2012 - 04:08 PM

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I don't recall "Knuckles in Sonic 2" having any plot reason for existing, yet I don't see anyone complaining about THAT.

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