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Sonic 4: Episode 2 Discussion Electric Bogaloo

#1426 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:31 PM

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View PostGlaber, on 24 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I don't even believe this game is worth that much when you can get the Master system titles for that much and even they provide a better experience with more content, plus allow you to play as tails (chaos/Sonic & Tails). If the game gear games come out before this does, I'm buying them on Ep2's release date.
I'd pick Episode 2 over Triple Trouble, personally (I'd say I'd pick CD 2011 over Ep 2 though, but I already got CD 2011. :v: ). The Game Gears were nice, but their age has easily shown.


Now, if it was remade Genesized...

Not really trying to funny or snarky, but the only real reason Sonic 4 doesn't -feel- like Sonic 4 to me is because it isn't sprite based. It feels odd to me when I compare it to Sonic 1-3, and even Sonic CD a bit. Mega Man 7 and 8 expanded on their predecessors, and 9-10 were done in NES fashion of 1-6. Dunno, I just prefer consistency, and I find sprites more appealing personally.

#1427 User is offline Kogen 

Posted 24 February 2012 - 10:56 PM

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View PostW.A.C., on 24 February 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

Tails has gotten totally shafted in recent years until the Sonic CD port. Having multiple playable characters was fucking awesome in S3&K and the Advance games plus it added a ton of replay value. Why Dimps stopped doing that, I don't know. Maybe it was to have the levels more based around Sonic's pros and cons. Whatever the reason, I disliked how both Dimps and Sonic Team stopped having Tails as a playable character in their games. Not to mention Sonic Team did a terrible job implementing Tails in both Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. That, and I feel Sonic Heroes sucks.

Part of why episode 1 was so disappointing had to do with the fact it did absolutely nothing new. For 2D Sonic games, it's not very easy to innovate so the fact they're putting the effort of doing new things is great to me. Of course, the Sonic and Tails moves look really fun to me partially because I've been wanting to see a Sonic game where having both Sonic and Tails was mandated. Hell, in all honesty, having both Sonic and Tails mandated is Sonic 4 as I truly imagined it and that is not a joke. Like literally for many years before Sonic 4 was even announced, I imagined Sonic 4 with that and have some levels require both characters to do certain things. The fact they're doing that with this game is super awesome to me, but I wish I could also switch characters at anytime in DKC1-3 style. That would be fucking awesome. However, finding out I can't play as Tails at all in single player is so disappointing that it hurt a ton of excitement I had for this game. Still excited for this game, but nowhere near as much.

I have no problem not having a Tails only option since I'd much rather play as Tails with Sonic following, but the only game to give me that option is Sonic Advance 3. Some of the new ideas for this game remind me a lot of Sonic Advance 3 except pulled off better which is a good thing as far as I'm concerned since I loved all three of the Sonic Advance games.

They gave up on multiple characters after the backlash against Heroes, Shadow, and 06. The imbeciles at Sonic Team think that Shadow, Silver, and Bonkers the Cat are just as bad as Tails and Knuckles, so they got rid of all of them. Iizuka brought it up many times in interviews.

I agree that no Tails and somewhat no Knuckles have made the games far shallower and killed off what long-time fans have enjoyed, but I do not think Tails is following that cycle this time. They are making the game specifically co-op, so it makes sense in this context. I view it as controlling both characters at once, not as Tails simply being there for the sake of it. Like some others said, play Sonic CD if you want to play a new release with Tails only.

My only other advice here is to find a friend to play with to play as Tails. That is what I intend to do, assuming the game is not AIDS quality.


View PostHez, on 24 February 2012 - 12:38 PM, said:

THEY DIDN'T FUCKING FIX THE SPINDASH AND ROLLING SOUND EFFECT. FUCK YOU DIMPS!

I'm not buying this game now. I am dead serious it is because of that reason. Call it a pet peeve if you want, or plain retarded, but that honestly throws it away from me. If you can't even get a single sound effect that IS CONSTANTLY USED throughout the game right, you don't deserve to be making Sonic games. Jesus fucking christ...

Lol.

This bothered me a lot too in the first episode. It is funny how pathetic they can be.

View Postserpx, on 24 February 2012 - 01:37 PM, said:

I'm not comfortable with the idea of requiring interaction with Tails to get through obstacles. I'm okay with it, if it's optional. I'm also very comfortable with creativity and progress -- that's just one creative idea that I dislike, if it's there. Feel free to change up level design, robot designs, boss designs, story ideas, and other additional features in order to prevent repetition and staleness. Add-ons are cool, I've grown to like the homing attack. I was iffy on its inclusion, but when I played Classic Sonic in Generations, I found myself missing the homing attack. Sonic 3 and Knuckles brought in some very fun innovations (where are the Bubble Shield, Fire Shields, etc.) I may find myself enjoying this new feature, but right now I'm just being vocal to express my nonderogatory thoughts on the change as I see it now -- stuff SEGA would like to see out of all their fans.

There is always perfect sense for someone to cry express their thoughts -- there is always room for that. People being vocal is how products are made better. Feel free to be vocal on why you think it's a good change -- discussing this in a positive respectful manner is how positive things happen. I disagree that the homing attack is bad -- I think it can help the flow of the game, if it's used in a well-designed manner.

Also, since it's such a big new feature, there's other people who may feel the same ... I don't know if I would group everyone in here as being 100% okay with this Tails interaction feature, since change naturally brings resistance (especially in this fanbase). You grouped everyone as people who don't want to suffer stale repetition, and I don't want to suffer that either. There's so many ways to prevent that, aside from this new feature -- which is why creativity is great.

I am not comfortable with the idea of you forcing me to not have enjoyment. I enjoy the concept of the game, I always enjoyed it in Sonic 2, 3, and Knuckles, and I want it expanded upon. I am sick of features I enjoy being discarded or marginalised for autistic, speed-runner homos. Homing attack can also go eat dicks. Insta-Shield and shield power-ups are way better.

Honestly, phack every Sonic fan after 1999. They all have severe autism, like most of the staff at any Sonic game development studio. It is not an issue with casual fans or children, but these mentally retarded teens and grown men. Thankfully SEGA is moving away from them. Freaks like Bentley Jones (now does music for gay pride parades; not joking) and AAUK (Kevin Eva) being gone is a big step towards that.

#1428 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:02 PM

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Indeed. I miss the days of yore when I could play as Knuckles and Tails as basically Sonic clones with powers.

Only one game ever did it right, and they never did it again. It's a real shame because it fucking worked in Sonic 3. It's part of the reason why Sonic 3 is my favorite Sonic game of all time, and no Sonic game can ever touch that. It's like they can't get it through their fucking skull. We want to play as older characters like we did in Sonic 3 but in 3D. I don't want to treasure hunt, I don't want to fight in a mech. I want level from start to finish. Fuck if you must give them differences, I've said it once and I'll say it again. Tails gets Sonic's gameplay from Sonic Adventure, Knuckles gets werehog with 10x more platforming and 10x less button mashing. There, done.

I've never met a truly modern fan, so I don't really know what exactly they're like. I mean I actually like the modern Sonic gameplay, but I like the classic gameplay just a bit more (It's why classic games fill my 1, 3, and 5 spots and modern games fill 2, 4, and 6). Sonic games are funny since I have somewhat lower standards for them then I do other series where I wouldn't let this slide, but I just really like Sonic games. Couldn't tell you why. However the days of me blindly buying every game that came out stopped after Sonic 06. I never played Black Knight or the other 2 riders games.

I believe that Sega is slowly fixing the Sonic series. Granted, it should have been here in 2006, but it's better then no progress at all.

Oh, and as far as the sound effects are concerned, why they didn't just reuse the ones from Generations is beyond me. I mean, seriously, if you're not going to make the right sounds, just take it from something else that you made. There's no shame in reusing assets that worked, like the caution signs. Reuse sound effects and the classic models, don't recreate the wheel and make it a square in the process
This post has been edited by Dark Sonic: 24 February 2012 - 11:10 PM

#1429 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:35 PM

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View PostDark Sonic, on 24 February 2012 - 11:02 PM, said:

Only one game ever did it right, and they never did it again.


It's sad how everyone always forgets all of the good things Black Knight did, because of the broken sword mechanic.

I really want to hack it one day and fix this...
This post has been edited by TheInvisibleSun: 24 February 2012 - 11:36 PM

#1430 User is offline Burnt Ash 

Posted 24 February 2012 - 11:58 PM

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View PostTheInvisibleSun, on 24 February 2012 - 11:35 PM, said:



It's sad how everyone always forgets all of the good things Black Knight did, because of the broken sword mechanic.



Indeed. I still say, that Black Knight was excellent in every aspect, but the gameplay. The way they handled other playable characters was almost perfect. If you wanted to play as Sonic all the way through, then you could, and if you wanted to play as other favorite characters, then you were given the opportunity to play as them as well. It's something that I'd like to see more often in the series, because, it's inoffensive if one only wants to play as Sonic, and it's inoffensive if one wants to play as other characters. As for Episode II, it'd be nice if like Sonic CD, Tails could be extra playable character once you beat the game. That would be amazing, it'd be just like Sonic 3 and Sonic Adventure again.

#1431 User is offline Kogen 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:16 AM

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Why would two people with their gender listed as male (implies having testicles) have Sonic and the Black Knight?

Also after having taken a look at those achievements, apparently the game does have Tails solo, or at least a normal multiplayer mode? I cannot imagine them expecting people to play co-op 50 times. I am looking forward to co-op a lot, but even I did not plan to do it that much. My love does not go that deep.

Also also, apparently you can skip acts again? Oh dear! One achievement mentioned beating the game without going back to the map screen (that might mean something else, but...)

#1432 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:18 AM

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Only chicks play Sonic and the Black Knight. Fact.

No really I'm curious as fuck as to where you got that from.

#1433 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:29 AM

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View PostKogen, on 25 February 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Also also, apparently you can skip acts again? Oh dear! One achievement mentioned beating the game without going back to the map screen (that might mean something else, but...)


Endurance Race – 25G
Clear all stages without returning to the World Map.


Perhaps it means beat the game in one straight run, without quitting, going back to the map, or game over-ing. Hopefully, this means that going back to the map is the choose-able option, and the game goes to the next act w/o required player input.

View PostKogen, on 25 February 2012 - 12:16 AM, said:

Why would two people with their gender listed as male (implies having testicles) have Sonic and the Black Knight?


Thanks for actually responding to my post.

#1434 User is offline Glaber 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:42 AM

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View PostAerosolSP, on 24 February 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

View PostGlaber, on 24 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I don't even believe this game is worth that much when you can get the Master system titles for that much and even they provide a better experience with more content, plus allow you to play as tails (chaos/Sonic & Tails). If the game gear games come out before this does, I'm buying them on Ep2's release date.


Yea but the game gear titles came out years ago. I wouldn't even value them at $5 when I can emulate them fairly easily for free.


Yea, I rather pay for a game that tells Sega "Go this way!" that came out years ago than pay for a game that tells them that Sonic 4 is "correct" and "you can continue making games like this".

Go play Triple trouble and compare its physics to that of sonic 4. Heck, I'd even say to cpmpair Sonic 1 Game Gear to Sonic 4
This post has been edited by Glaber: 25 February 2012 - 12:46 AM

#1435 User is online Chaos Rush 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:47 AM

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View PostSkyler, on 24 February 2012 - 06:50 PM, said:

You know, it may function the opposite way this time. Not saying that it's for sure, but neither is the E1 method.

View PostFelik, on 24 February 2012 - 03:33 PM, said:

View PostRoller, on 24 February 2012 - 03:24 PM, said:

Also, I love red rings too. They are my favorite of the 'New Classic' ideals that Generations introduced, and I'm glad they're back again for Sonic 4.

What do you mean? They were in Colors first.

Actually, they were in Secret Rings first. :v:

I'm just curious, but does anyone else think that the Sun/Moon medals in Unleashed HD are a predecessor to the Red Rings? Because I didn't get an HD console until last month, I played Colors before I got to play Unleashed HD (I've played Unleashed Wii before, but that doesn't count since that game is horrible and I consider the Wii version to be a laughable joke fangame by Dimps). So when I was hunting for Sun/Moon medals on Unleashed (PS3), I was immediately reminded of Red Ring hunting in Colors.

#1436 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 12:52 AM

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View PostGlaber, on 25 February 2012 - 12:42 AM, said:

View PostAerosolSP, on 24 February 2012 - 10:21 PM, said:

View PostGlaber, on 24 February 2012 - 10:12 PM, said:

I don't even believe this game is worth that much when you can get the Master system titles for that much and even they provide a better experience with more content, plus allow you to play as tails (chaos/Sonic & Tails). If the game gear games come out before this does, I'm buying them on Ep2's release date.


Yea but the game gear titles came out years ago. I wouldn't even value them at $5 when I can emulate them fairly easily for free.


Yea, I rather pay for a game that tells Sega "Go this way!" that came out years ago than pay for a game that tells them that Sonic 4 is "correct" and "you can continue making games like this".

Go play Triple trouble and compare its physics to that of sonic 4. Heck, I'd even say to cpmpair Sonic 1 Game Gear to Sonic 4


Buying a game gear game doesn't tell Sega to make more games like it. It tells Sega that you like rebuying shit they've already made.

Think like a businessman, not a consumer!

#1437 User is offline HeartAttack 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 01:45 AM

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Not sure what's happening in the topic at hand - but I just saw the screens Sega released. I'm excited :)

#1438 User is offline TheInvisibleSun 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 02:49 AM

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Hm...If the "I Love Tails" achievement is referring to playing as Tails in the co-op 50 times, they must really have a lot of faith in the stages' replayability...

#1439 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:26 AM

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What if...

what if it just means "switch to Tails 50 times"? Oh god I think I'll piss everywhere laughing if that's it.

#1440 User is offline Roller 

Posted 25 February 2012 - 04:51 AM

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Just some musings.

Looking at the trailer in a bit more detail, with less fanatic devotion in my eyes... I can see that Sonic does pick up SOME speed going down that steeper hill in Sylvania Castle Zone. Not much, but it's there, which is good.

Also, for those complaining about the chosen spindash sound - we already know that in these sorts of trailers they play the game mute then dub the sound in, so it's no good complaining about spindash sounds that were put there by employees who also once gave Classic Sonic the voice of Modern Sonic in the first full Generations trailer. At least, not until we hear the game without it being in a trailer form.

Also - one thing from Episode 1 that they fixed that nobody even noticed was how Sonic took up a larger percentage of the screen than he did in the classics. The good thing is that his presence is now smaller, so we can see more of what's coming up ahead.
This post has been edited by Roller: 25 February 2012 - 04:53 AM

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