[Neo]

winterhell, on 29 December 2011 - 01:30 PM, said:

nobody is using XP

...How many people did you ask!?

[Irixion]

.NET 4.0 and XNA -- "standards have changed". It's like complaining that something requires a newer operating system. 7 and Vista, is fine, XP is dead, has been for a long time.


As for standards, the entire community goes batshit when they see something that's below their impossibly high standards. How about contributing some POSITIVE criticism? Reporting bugs, suggesting tweaks, not going completely hostile and shooting whoever they don't like down. I agree—this needs work, but I'm not going to be a complete asshole about it.


On a side note, I'd hate to see minute nitpicking at what x or y looks like. Have consistency, have it look good, but please don't start nitpicking, this is going to slow things down to a crawl.

[Damizean]

Clutch, on 29 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or you could go the full 3D route like Fan Remix/Generations, as that's been quite explicitly stated to be what the team was trying to replicate back in 1991 (hence checkerboard hills and origami trees with high contrast color). But please, don't just pre-render everything. It worked for Donkey Kong Country because it was replicating something that simply could not be done at the time. There's no such excuse anymore, and the Sprite/Polygon mixing is one reason I can't stand Sonic 4's visual style.

A note, if you guys want to go for the full 3D route as Clutch suggested, I can share what I have of my engine so far. I have no uses for it right now, until Pelikan is able to resume work on SFR.

[Dark Sonic]

Damizean, on 29 December 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

Clutch, on 29 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or you could go the full 3D route like Fan Remix/Generations, as that's been quite explicitly stated to be what the team was trying to replicate back in 1991 (hence checkerboard hills and origami trees with high contrast color). But please, don't just pre-render everything. It worked for Donkey Kong Country because it was replicating something that simply could not be done at the time. There's no such excuse anymore, and the Sprite/Polygon mixing is one reason I can't stand Sonic 4's visual style.

A note, if you guys want to go for the full 3D route as Clutch suggested, I can share what I have of my engine so far. I have no uses for it right now, until Pelikan is able to resume work on SFR.

^^^ THISSS x 1000. Use Generations classic models... make one for Knuckles, and make level models for a truly awesome Sonic 3 upgrade

[Relick]

Damizean, on 29 December 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

Clutch, on 29 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or you could go the full 3D route like Fan Remix/Generations, as that's been quite explicitly stated to be what the team was trying to replicate back in 1991 (hence checkerboard hills and origami trees with high contrast color). But please, don't just pre-render everything. It worked for Donkey Kong Country because it was replicating something that simply could not be done at the time. There's no such excuse anymore, and the Sprite/Polygon mixing is one reason I can't stand Sonic 4's visual style.

A note, if you guys want to go for the full 3D route as Clutch suggested, I can share what I have of my engine so far. I have no uses for it right now, until Pelikan is able to resume work on SFR.

You got any of it in action? I'm interested (no guarantees yet though).

I'll admit it would be awesome, but I'm not the project leader here. Without disappointing a lot of people I wouldn't be able to easily make that happen.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

As much as Tweaker's comments would have been too much for me to bear had I been in your shoes (I'm a delicate little flower), I can understand where's he's coming from- what is it that sets this project apart from the rest? It would be nice for people on this board to have a good balance of critique and gentlemanly demeanor though, it gives this community the sense that it's mature, something we need to be reminded of; we are.

Having said that, do you really want to set this project apart from the rest? What's wrong with being intergrated with others, especially Sonic 2 HD? This project is at a very early stage in development- obviously it's a WIP, and you've got a lot of stuff to refine and resolve, but you're there quicker than I would have anticipated. I was a little irked about having to download extra stuff to get the game to work when other games like Fan Remix and Nexus run off their own backs, but it looks like a neat game so far, even if I feel that the concept of the whole game itself isn't very interesting anymore (We've been waiting for Sonic 2 HD for years, and I pretty much gave up on seeing that because I have a short amount of patience).

It's your project, but what I would like to see is YOUR take on Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Do it how YOU want to. Was there something in that game that pissed you off? Change it! Don't completely create your game to suit every single person, but create it in a way where you think people will be happy, and you'll feel less like a community whore- that way you keep the spirit of what you wanted created, and you'll retain that little bit of your soul.

TL;DR; I like the game. Nothing majorly sets it apart from anything else, but that's not the main objective of the game. The art is good, needs improving and needs more depth added to the gradients and contrast, and I think we need to see more shading and minor detail like leaves and textured bark on trees etc. That said, you told us the art was still in progress and you were up front about it and have given this a real go.

Kudos.

[Damizean]

Relick, on 29 December 2011 - 05:34 PM, said:

Damizean, on 29 December 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

Clutch, on 29 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or you could go the full 3D route like Fan Remix/Generations, as that's been quite explicitly stated to be what the team was trying to replicate back in 1991 (hence checkerboard hills and origami trees with high contrast color). But please, don't just pre-render everything. It worked for Donkey Kong Country because it was replicating something that simply could not be done at the time. There's no such excuse anymore, and the Sprite/Polygon mixing is one reason I can't stand Sonic 4's visual style.

A note, if you guys want to go for the full 3D route as Clutch suggested, I can share what I have of my engine so far. I have no uses for it right now, until Pelikan is able to resume work on SFR.

You got any of it in action? I'm interested (no guarantees yet though).

I'll admit it would be awesome, but I'm not the project leader here. Without disappointing a lot of people I wouldn't be able to easily make that happen.

https://rapidshare.c...calPlantWip.rar
http://www.aethermac...cret/eggengine/

[Dario FF]

Irixion, on 29 December 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

.NET 4.0 and XNA -- "standards have changed". It's like complaining that something requires a newer operating system. 7 and Vista, is fine, XP is dead, has been for a long time.

Except not everyone needs to just use Windows and would appreciate some cross-platform compatibility as well when there's no particular reason to only use XNA.

XP isn't dead yet... Steam community stats, 16% of Steam users from the HW survey with Windows XP 32 bit, even surpassing Vista. That's not an ammount to shoot down with "it's dead".

EDIT: It "should" be dead is another discussion though.

This post has been edited by Dario FF: 29 December 2011 - 06:35 PM

[TheInvisibleSun]

Dark Sonic, on 29 December 2011 - 05:21 PM, said:

Damizean, on 29 December 2011 - 04:42 PM, said:

Clutch, on 29 December 2011 - 02:10 PM, said:

Or you could go the full 3D route like Fan Remix/Generations, as that's been quite explicitly stated to be what the team was trying to replicate back in 1991 (hence checkerboard hills and origami trees with high contrast color). But please, don't just pre-render everything. It worked for Donkey Kong Country because it was replicating something that simply could not be done at the time. There's no such excuse anymore, and the Sprite/Polygon mixing is one reason I can't stand Sonic 4's visual style.

A note, if you guys want to go for the full 3D route as Clutch suggested, I can share what I have of my engine so far. I have no uses for it right now, until Pelikan is able to resume work on SFR.

^^^ THISSS x 1000. Use Generations classic models... make one for Knuckles, and make level models for a truly awesome Sonic 3 upgrade

Echoing this statement. With that engine, your team can focus much more rigorously on the art being improved (instead of perfecting the engine), and thus improve the project's overall quality at least one-hundred-fold. I'm definitely looking forward to the potential of this project being truly realized.

[null1024]

Jeez, seeing tons of hate for this. Not that it is all unwarranted, but this is an effort, and it could go somewhere. At least it has something playable for us to yell at.

The demo runs well on my netbook. Great. Took ages to install .NET 4.0, but otherwise things went well.
The lack of DirectInput controller support is annoying, but eh, Joy2Key.
The physics are totally broken [like, not broken in the way Sonic 4 is, but just glitchy as hell], but you know this, and I hope to see things get better from here.
And even though it doesn't look particularly good visually [too vector, too shiny, etc], I like it more than Sonic 4's look. Which isn't hard, but still.

[BlazeHedgehog]

Irixion, on 29 December 2011 - 04:26 PM, said:

XP is dead, has been for a long time.

Well screw you, too. I don't appreciate being locked out in the cold just because you think the operating system I'm unfortunately tethered to is "dead".

[GeneHF]

Gave this a spin on my XP machine (hurr gene ignores previous discussion in thread because fuck you) and boy, did it nearly destroy it. Poor thing kept barfing up BSODs until I straight up gutted all the stuff tied to this game.

That said, I still got to play it intermittently, and as a 17 year veteran of Sonic 3 I have to say...

For all that is good and holy, either throw this back in the easy bake oven for more dev time or just stop right now.

I thought Axiom was one of the more egregious abuses of trying to be a Sonic game on Flash but this... granted it's not QUITE flash, but it felt like Sonic was a shopping trolley on oil-slicked ice. Nevermind the art work alone needs a serious slap in the upgrade department. It honestly felt like the tiles were slapped in Photoshop and some sort of nasty plastic effect was plastered all over them with a liberal dashing of gradients. It just looks really sloppy.

I'm not going to berate the project to the point in saying that it feels like an obvious cash-in on whatever attention Sonic 2 HD got, but if you're going to at least be mimicking the development style, put more heart into this project because it feels far too much like "Look! Look! We can do this too!"--little ignored brother syndrome. I don't know if you guys have the talent potential available to improve because right now it's not looking too good. Your artists should study the Sonic 2 HD project to get ideas on how to translate the original tiles and updating them while keeping the same charm they possessed originally. It would do A LOT more for the look than feel like some cheaply made 5-minute slap jobs in Photoshop and Illustrator.

Especially those emeralds. Eugh!

As for music? I had that muted. Enough said.

[winterhell]

Thanks null1024, you are one of the few to realize the physics are not actually wrong but rather have bugs(which were actually 4 missing features for the walls and ceilings, I've already fixed them). And I plan to include DirectInput beucase as of now only XInput is supported.

About the XP debate, if you don't remember 10 years ago the same thing was XP versus 98. How The 98 was better, could run Norton Antivirus '83 and 4 bit applications, and had integrated DOS. Sure, there are still people that will stay with XP due to lack of drivers for TV tuners and scanners, but the mass is moving on.
About how many people did I ask XP is dead? I asked the millions that bought or played otherwise Battlefield 3. Go tell EA to go OpenGL to cover the 3% people with XP and Mac that actually have the hardware to run the game.

[Dario FF]

winterhell, on 30 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

About how many people did I ask XP is dead? I asked the millions that bought or played otherwise Battlefield 3. Go tell EA to go OpenGL to cover the 3% people with XP and Mac that actually have the hardware to run the game.

You're asking the wrong crowd then, because BF3 was the main reason for some people for upgrading their hardware, or setting up for it, including lots of people going to Vista/7 for DX11 driver support.

We're talking about a high-resolution 2D game here though. Think of hardware requirements like say, Bastion's. There's no reason to bloat more software than what's needed to it if it's gonna stay a 2D game with some 3D simple routines like fragment shaders or such... Imagine if Plants VS Zombies had a Windows 7 only requirement.

Look, here's my simple opinion on how to approach it. If you're a high-profile company, looking to release the next-million-seller game, you already have a set crowd of fans, and they'll probably go to new lengths and upgrade to play your game. They even shoved Origin into BF3 and people had to "accept" it.

If you're a simple internet project, you want to reach as much people as possible, particularly when there's no reason to require newer OS/Hardware. People noticed that with having to install 2 software dependencies, and they're not happy with it, as evidenced already on this thread. I already pointed out free software alternatives to consider.

This post has been edited by Dario FF: 30 December 2011 - 07:36 AM

[Falk]

winterhell, on 30 December 2011 - 05:47 AM, said:

About how many people did I ask XP is dead? I asked the millions that bought or played otherwise Battlefield 3. Go tell EA to go OpenGL to cover the 3% people with XP and Mac that actually have the hardware to run the game.

Are you really comparing yourselves to EA? People bitched about Origin but bit the bullet and installed it anyway because they -wanted- to play BF3. Unless you're comfortable saying S3HD has the same pulling power as a millions-budget triple-A title, I'd say you want to cater to as wide a userbase as possible, especially considering this particular userbase... 'likes old things'.

edit: Aaaand, having windows open for a while is dumb. I'm bad at forums.

This post has been edited by Falk: 30 December 2011 - 07:42 AM