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When you use Sonic for a college assignment (music)

#16 User is offline Ch1pper 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:14 PM

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Oh bother. I was hoping to be wrong on some level.

The programs it offers sound like they're right up my alley, but I have a hard enough time in my current community college... Fffffffff....

#17 User is offline Chimera 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:16 PM

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View PostFalk, on 10 November 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

View PostChimera, on 10 November 2011 - 03:51 PM, said:

If you don't get the best grade you can get with this, your professor doesn't know what he/she is doing.

(My professor did the original pre-kinect xbox360 logo jingle and is the coolest professor in the college. Where else do you see a student get asked to play Mass Effect 2 in class so that he can talk about how the interactive music works)

Okay, if I was a musician I would take your college in a heartbeat. I'm going more into graphic design though so that's a whole other thing. You.... You know what you're doing with what you're learning, and I applaud you for your excellence.

Also, around 2:22 on your SoundCloud (Be Cool), I was reminded of Starlight Carnival. Was I suppose to be? :P

View PostFalk, on 10 November 2011 - 04:05 PM, said:

View PostCh1pper, on 10 November 2011 - 04:00 PM, said:

Edit: Berklee, thought so. I've scoped out their website before and I get a very... uncomfortable, semi-elitist vibe from it. ;____;

100% correct hahahah. Saying you prefer to use a PC and detest macs here is like a death sentence. However I wear that badge of dishonor with pride.

I'd have to hurt myself. A lot. XD

#18 User is offline Falk 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:17 PM

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One thing that's cool about the college is that musicians are... weird by default. So if you're weird people don't really give you a hard time.

But yeah, the majors here are all really good. I honestly was torn between electronic production & design (which I feel is the most relevant today), film scoring, and music production & engineering. Ended up throwing my lot in with a dual major doing the latter two.

edit: I can't actually remember the music of Starlight Carnival off top of head (don't hurt me D: ) but someone also said the B section before it sounds like Seaside Hill, which I've never played prior to Generations. I guess it's one of those sonic-y, or japanese-y generic progressions. I actually got the progression idea from a totally unrelated franchise-> 1m03s of


So yeah, quite a lot of the references are half unintentional. I guess it's also testament to how varied sonic music is as a whole.
This post has been edited by Falk: 10 November 2011 - 04:22 PM

#19 User is offline Chimera 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:26 PM

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It's the baseline that alternates from one note to another every whole note (I think; it might be a half note. I'm better at this when presented sheet music XD I'm not all musically gifted)

It sounds like the beginning base sound of this right here:


Only the first two-three notes of that song sound like the part I pointed out. I'm weird; maybe I should learn musical theory. lol.

Then again, all artists are weird, no? :P

#20 User is offline Falk 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 04:32 PM

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I get what you mean! The irony is a -lot- of these similarities I'm only discovering after finishing off most of the assignment legwork in the middle of summer. (I'd never played Colors till September, emulated on Dolphin)

#21 User is offline JackSkellinghog 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 06:59 PM

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Thought it fit pretty well to just a normal run through of Rooftop Run so I made it happen.

#22 User is offline Falk 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 07:30 PM

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Coincidentally enough, presentation - you boot up Wwise and control your music live to accompany gameplay footage - was on Nov 1st, and I'd literally picked up Generations 9 hours before class. I was tempted to play till Rooftop Run and present that instead of the Unleashed version but there were too many unknown variables (like, are there comparable transition points? etc) so I didn't.

#23 User is offline Tyty 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:05 PM

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I've watched the video 3 times now, and it's pretty awesome, but I'm wondering how well this would apply to classic sonic style, as well as other games. It works VERY well for modern sonic due to the fast pace, and the whole obstacle course dynamic, and I know Mario 64 did similar with Dire Dire Docks and Jolly Roger Bay depending on where you are in the level (but that was just adding/removing an instrument or two), but there's so many other game types to think about that this would apply to, such as Zelda and FPSes and the like.

EDIT: Just remembered wind waker had dynamic music too. The "sneaking" music got more... ominous (I guess?) the more you moved.
This post has been edited by Tyty: 10 November 2011 - 08:06 PM

#24 User is offline Indigo Rush 

Posted 10 November 2011 - 08:18 PM

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Is there... like a way you could go over to Sonic Team or SEGA and show this to them or something? This is actually something that the 3D Sonic games could really benefit from! This is incredible work, props to you, dude!

#25 User is offline XCubed 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 12:34 AM

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This is absolutely amazing! I feel like I just wasted 7 years of my life doing something else instead of this.

What was your process for putting something like this together? What do you use to make such wonderful music? The quality is so great that it fits perfectly! I have such a passion for music, but I just feel that I don't have the right tools.

#26 User is offline Falk 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 01:51 AM

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View PostIndigo Dude, on 10 November 2011 - 08:18 PM, said:

Is there... like a way you could go over to Sonic Team or SEGA and show this to them or something? This is actually something that the 3D Sonic games could really benefit from! This is incredible work, props to you, dude!

I actually need to finish college :V

Unless they're offering something that can put food on the table long term, which is rare. Music/audio guys are the bottom of the food chain in game development unfortunately.

View PostXCubed, on 11 November 2011 - 12:34 AM, said:

This is absolutely amazing! I feel like I just wasted 7 years of my life doing something else instead of this.

What was your process for putting something like this together? What do you use to make such wonderful music? The quality is so great that it fits perfectly! I have such a passion for music, but I just feel that I don't have the right tools.


Cakewalk SONAR is my DAW of choice, although nowadays it honestly doesn't matter. In terms of sounds, guitars and bass were fake-recorded (I play them note by note, then stitch them together). Drums are one of the default kits off Native Instruments Battery. Violins/other orchestrals are off Vienna Symphonic Library. Piano and acoustic guitar were recorded live.

For the techno version, most of the sounds are off Vengeance Club Essentials. The D&B groove is basically me mashing random keys on a sliced up amen break: (gah, auto-embed)
()
This post has been edited by Falk: 11 November 2011 - 01:51 AM

#27 User is offline messyb 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 05:22 AM

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I've been quite interested in the way the sound in games can change depending what actions are taken in-game, but unfortunatley, not many games seem to use it to it's full potential. Games like Banjo-Kazooie changed its MIDI instrumentation depending on the environment (like when going underwater for example) and it's sad to see that sort of thing is less common nowdays. I remember that Halo 3 also had an adaptive soundtrack where instruments would be added to the song as the action intensified and the mood changed. Instruments were also removed when the action simmered down. That alone was enough to interest me, but this... this is bloody phenomenal. Seriously, your work here is unlike anything I've ever seen (or heard. lol). The way that the music works so well with the level's progression, how it changes when the player's skill and/or speed does, how it drasticly enhances the game's already incredible sense of speed and adreneline. Combined with the fact that the song itself is just a brilliant composition, this shit should be revolutionary to music in gaming as we know it. Well done is an understatement.
This post has been edited by messyb: 11 November 2011 - 05:24 AM

#28 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 06:06 AM

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I was going to post a gif of wrestling fans bowing to show how in awe I am in this, but that's against the rules for posting standards.

So instead, I'm just going to tell you I am in awe of how that worked out. You're right that Generations actually does the effect as well and I love it every time when in Green Hill and Sky Sanctuary (the only two levels that do this), if you are idle or going under top speed, you get the normal song. When Sonic is running at full speed, the percussion and extra guitars kick in to accentuate the fact you're going faster.

Sadly, then you hit the boost and that retarded equalization effect kicks in and shits all over the melodies. It's just as bad as including a constantly used battle theme that completely swallows up very nice compositions. Right, Sonic Unleashed?

Not Sonic related, but as you mentioned, action games play a lot with this music effect in changing songs. Phantasy Star Online way back on the Dreamcast was one of the first I remember doing this. The upcoming Devil may Cry has been teased by Ninja Theory to pull a similar effect depending on your performance in battle. So it begins with a basic but plain song, adds guitars as you go in, and if you manage to reach really high Style Meter levels, it adds vocals. Dynamic music like that is something that's very much interesting. One bit I love that was used in a movie I saw recently (should check it out, obviously) is during chase sequences in Hanna. The Chemical Brothers did a fantastic job with that.

#29 User is offline Falk 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:34 AM

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Speaking of existing games that do interactivity really well, I think Red Dead Redemption is a case in point regarding what I said about Western scoring. Technically, it's an amazing adaptation of interactivity. http://www.guardian....tion-soundtrack

However looking back, I can't really even remember anything about the music except that it had harmonica. It was good during gameplay, but I'm not too sure if it made a lasting impression. That being said I grew up on Final Fantasy and the like, so maybe I'm just a tad biased.

edit: I guess I should also mention it's not the first assignment I did music for Sonic footage for. :V The earlier elective in the chain taught basic modtracking (since it's still in use in DS games today - although definitely a dying breed, the techniques are good to know) and I did Colors final boss in a completely different genre vs the original music. The final tracker file was something hilarious like 200kb, and it could be sped up and slowed down at will quite a bit before it started sounding dumb.


This post has been edited by Falk: 11 November 2011 - 08:50 AM

#30 User is offline Dusk Golem 

Posted 11 November 2011 - 08:55 AM

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All very impressive stuff, I left a comment on the Rooftop Run video but I'll say it here.

Just a note, not to this depth, but Sonic Heroes actually did something like this. I noticed it in a few stages, but it mostly stuck out to me in Mystic Mansion, where a part of the song will loop until you enter a certain part of a stage and then the music will continue to the next part. They set it in that stage so the music will be at it's more jazzy parts when fighting enemies, and then play the catchiest and most intense part when you get to the car driving sections.

However, I wish this stuff was more common in Sonic as it can be great for mood & thrill capturing.

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