[SomeSortOfRobot]

Afti, on 06 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

I actually like the degree of mobility Unleashed/Colors/Generations give Sonic. What needs to happen is in two primary changes:

-decent rolling mechanics
-a five-year dev cycle

Give Sonic somewhere to go. A single stage should be a massive, open world, like a huge sandbox, with the player using every tool available to reach their goal. The issue isn't with the way the character works- it's that you don't have a large enough scale. The current gameplay model needs stage designs which force the player to exploit the terrific mobility on offer. That needs a longer gap between games.

Five years? Seriously?

[Scripten]

SomeSortOfRobot, on 06 November 2011 - 11:18 PM, said:

Afti, on 06 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

I actually like the degree of mobility Unleashed/Colors/Generations give Sonic. What needs to happen is in two primary changes:

-decent rolling mechanics
-a five-year dev cycle

Give Sonic somewhere to go. A single stage should be a massive, open world, like a huge sandbox, with the player using every tool available to reach their goal. The issue isn't with the way the character works- it's that you don't have a large enough scale. The current gameplay model needs stage designs which force the player to exploit the terrific mobility on offer. That needs a longer gap between games.

Five years? Seriously?

This is not at all a bad idea, given that the time is spent perfecting each level and building a massive, interweaving world for each one. I think it would best be handled by something akin to the Sonic GDK engine, but that is where I've always seen the series eventually going toward.

[SomeSortOfRobot]

Scripten, on 06 November 2011 - 11:23 PM, said:

SomeSortOfRobot, on 06 November 2011 - 11:18 PM, said:

Afti, on 06 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

I actually like the degree of mobility Unleashed/Colors/Generations give Sonic. What needs to happen is in two primary changes:

-decent rolling mechanics
-a five-year dev cycle

Give Sonic somewhere to go. A single stage should be a massive, open world, like a huge sandbox, with the player using every tool available to reach their goal. The issue isn't with the way the character works- it's that you don't have a large enough scale. The current gameplay model needs stage designs which force the player to exploit the terrific mobility on offer. That needs a longer gap between games.

Five years? Seriously?

This is not at all a bad idea, given that the time is spent perfecting each level and building a massive, interweaving world for each one. I think it would best be handled by something akin to the Sonic GDK engine, but that is where I've always seen the series eventually going toward.

Well sure, but five years? Isn't that kinda overkill?

[Dark Sonic]

SomeSortOfRobot, on 06 November 2011 - 11:18 PM, said:

Afti, on 06 November 2011 - 10:35 PM, said:

I actually like the degree of mobility Unleashed/Colors/Generations give Sonic. What needs to happen is in two primary changes:

-decent rolling mechanics
-a five-year dev cycle

Give Sonic somewhere to go. A single stage should be a massive, open world, like a huge sandbox, with the player using every tool available to reach their goal. The issue isn't with the way the character works- it's that you don't have a large enough scale. The current gameplay model needs stage designs which force the player to exploit the terrific mobility on offer. That needs a longer gap between games.

Five years? Seriously?

Maybe not 5 but at least 4. Generations is great but imagine Generations with twice the levels and twice the polish. Then we'd be having a grand ol time.

Of course for this to happen Unleashed and Colors would have never happened. I suppose if that was the case Modern Sonic would likely have been more like Adventure Sonic. However given Sega's policy of not recognizing any of it's other IPs, expect more of the same. At the very least they have different divisions working on different games, so while there may be a situation like Colors, Generations, Sonic 4, and Sonic Riders, they're all being handled by different people for the most part (some overlap but for the most part they're independent projects). So at the very least it's likely these games get about 2 years development time as is. Could stand to be longer though by at least a year.

[Afti]

Five years isn't overkill at all. I don't want Generations with more stages- I'm talking about a game in which a "stage" is a single massive arena. If you can see a tower in the distance, you can run toward it; you can scale its exterior, or climb through the interior.

Given the "CHASE GIANT AIRSHIP #3491" goal which is so prevalent- you'd survey the landscape, and see the airship on the horizon, moving toward a colossal tree. So, with Sonic's current ridiculous skillset- run up the trunk of a nearby, smaller tree. Launch into the air, and land in the forest canopy; jump between thick branches, swing and grind on vines, crossing the massive field of green until you reach the large tree. No walls- you look at the landscape ahead and determine what the quickest path is. If you're right- you reach the tree, and enter its trunk; run along the interior wall and shoot out the top, grabbing onto the door of the airship. Navigate the perilous interior of the ship, dodging flame-jets, leaping between turbines. Reach Robotnik/Eggman/whatever you call him inside the ship; trick his mech into firing its rockets at the ship's main reactor. It's going down. He flees for a base in the valley below. Break down the door and use it as a snowboard in pursuit. If you're wrong, you need to find another way to intercept the ship and continue onward, before it leaves the forest's skies.

That's what needs to be done with the current skillset given to Sonic. There's a massive amount of freedom of movement the mechanics allow; it's wasted on a game design that focuses on a rollercoaster experience. Even when it's good! Empire City, Asteroid Coaster, and Sky Sanctuary are all great fun- but they waste the freedom of movement that Sonic's modern skillset allows. Generations is by far more open than either Colors or Unleashed- but you're still quite easily moving in a line from point A to point B. You're never made to improvise.

[jasonchrist]

OSM, on 06 November 2011 - 10:23 PM, said:

Real talk though, I just want SEGA to make a new game that's basically the equivalent of Sonic 3 & Knuckles in terms of perfection. Just make a big ass platforming game with level transitions everywhere.

In their minds they're already making it... sadly it's called Sonic 4.

[Ayu Tsukimiya]

I don't think FIVE years are needed. Two years would be the best idea, in my opinion. We got stuff like the Adventure series when they did that.

[TheKazeblade]

Hasn't it been kind of believed that Generations got roughly 3 years of development since the Unleashed team hadn't released anything since Unleashed? That long of a development cycle has indeed shown a positive result on the final product. I think building a three year cycle would be the best option for the franchise, not counting games from the Storybook/Colors team. Now that Sonic has hit an overwhelmingly positive position when it comes to game quality, I would hate for them to oversaturate the market. It was understandable before when we didn't know whether or not the game would even be good, but now that we can expect an at least average game, if not phenomenal like Generations, I feel it's best for them to slow down, take their time, and make something fantastic. They don't need to prove anything anymore, now it's time to let Sonic Team breathe.

If they really have an overhaul planned, I have no desire whatsoever to see a game in the near year/two year window. I want them to put the time in to ensuring that the next game is really polished.

[Overlord]

5 years is not a realistic development time for 99% of videogames. It's not financially feasible. Generally by the time you hit this sort of time length you're in serious development problems (overkill example, but DNF which took 14 years) or can't decide wtf you're trying to make (Team Fortress 2, which took 9 years and according to Robin Walker "Valve had quietly built "probably three to four different games" before settling on their final design").

3 years, fine. 4, pushing it. 5? No.

[Scarred Sun]

I honestly don't see what's wrong with the current dev cycle, other than maybe tack another six months to the main team. Running two "teams" for one product actually makes a lot of sense.

It's more a matter of what's done during the actual time.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

With five years, your'e starting problems. Firstly, you'd be seeing only one or two Sonic games per Generations, whic essentially means that development of ideas and feedback would be slow. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't have just had Generations, we'd have just had Sonic Unleashed.

Secondly, technology improves. Ideas have to be implemented whilst the technology is still around, otherwise you've got to keep up to date with the latest technology, ever evolving your game in a way which prevents you from releasing it quickly, as these sorts of changes rapidly bring on new ideas and engines to implement, delaying the process greatly- Duke Nuken Forever suffered due to this, as well as a lack of direction.

Lastly, the quality of 3D Sonic games since 2006 have been great. If they hadn't oversaturated the market with The Secret Rings, Black Knight, All Stars Racing, Sonic Riders, Zero Gravity, Free Riders and the dozen Olympic Games, then people would probably feel as though the Sonic series wasn't so diverse and difficult to follow.

As it stands, I just want them to release a major game every 2 to 3 years on ALL platforms- Wii included. No one should be seperated. PS3/Xbox gamers should have gotten Colours, and Wii should've gotten Generations. I love playing Generations on PC and I can understand why they felt the Wii wouldn't do it total justice due to the marvelous set pieces and what not, but they should cater to everyone, seeing as Sonic is their mascot, and loved all over regardless of platform.

[Caniad Bach]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 07 November 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

With five years, your'e starting problems. Firstly, you'd be seeing only one or two Sonic games per Generations...

I see what you did there

Thing is, the problem with having a title on both the two HD consoles and the Wii, is that there has to be compromise somewhere, either they have to cut back on content in the HD versions, which would, I expect, take a lot of the charm out of Generations, or develop a cut down version. And then we end up with something like the Wii/PS2 Unleashed, or, to a lesser extent: The even worse music in the WiiWare Sonic 4.

[MastaSys]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 07 November 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

If they hadn't oversaturated the market with The Secret Rings, Black Knight, All Stars Racing, Sonic Riders, Zero Gravity, Free Riders and the dozen Olympic Games, then people would probably feel as though the Sonic series wasn't so diverse and difficult to follow.

Oh please, even in the 90s Sonic had so much crap going on, so much spin-off and cartoons and comics.
Sonic was always the Sega's milking cow since the beginning.
It was probably worse in that regard, with "alternative universes", multiple canons...
And that didn't hurt the main Mega Drive titles in the long run overall, in fact are the most cherished titles out there

This post has been edited by MastaSys: 07 November 2011 - 06:18 PM

[TheKazeblade]

SpeedStarTMQ, on 07 November 2011 - 05:56 PM, said:

With five years, your'e starting problems. Firstly, you'd be seeing only one or two Sonic games per Generations, whic essentially means that development of ideas and feedback would be slow. If that were the case, we probably wouldn't have just had Generations, we'd have just had Sonic Unleashed.

Difference being, we've had Generations which the developers used to refine the Unleashed formula to a shine. If we started only getting one or two per console (provided consoles continue to last only 5 years which the 360 and PS3 are disproving) I would have no issue with that. It means more focus and the opportunity for more refinement. More ideas can be implemented in a more developed state than they would otherwise.

Additionally, now that the games are at a positive level, and we are no longer needing new games to bring Sonic back to prominence, I'm afraid the exact reasoning you used to describe Secret Rings and Black Knight may become true of the franchise itself: oversaturation. Like I said before, Sonic no longer needs to prove anything, so there is no reason to continue releasing major core releases every year. I'm worried that that time-table will begin to cheapen a good thing rather than making each release an event, and having each of these events being a major milestone that will push the franchise forward by leaps and bounds each game rather than small changes over the course of several, several games. That's just my thinking on it.

[Caniad Bach]

It's slightly unfortunate that Sonic makes so much money for SEGA, making it impossible to retire him for an extended period, where a dedicated team can develop, refine and perfect a truly great game, which is then suddenly sprung upon people for a surprise "Fuck?! Where did that come from!" sort of thing. That's what I'd personally like to see. It's saddening that the only game that wasn't rushed out was Sonic 1.