[GT Koopa]

Yeah, we have heard of it before. "Oh no Sonic hacks have slowed down to a trickle!" "Engineering & Reverse Engineering is a ghost town!" "No one is working on anything!" However things run different here, as various people have pointed out.


Lets say you go to Gamestop everyday, checking to see if there are any new games. You have a conversation with the guy behind the counter and leave. You come back the next day, seeing if anything has changed. Same selection, the worker says all the major developers have nothing scheduled. This happens again and again, day after day. You start to get depressed. You go in one more time. Suddenly there is a giant display! It is for Super Mario Galaxy 3: Special 128 Brothers, now on sale. Your head spins as you try to comprehend what just happened. You play the game on the set up system to the side by the display. It is the BEST GAME EVER. Quality everywhere. Right when you think you got it down, BAM the level suddenly changes to something EVEN BETTER. You are in awe on how good this game is, and what it must have took to make it. Other customers feel just the same way. What really gets you is that this game was made in secret, probably for years. There was never any hint that it was coming. No mention of it in a gaming magazine, or on a gaming website. All that time you thought they were doing nothing, when they were really making a masterpiece. Reviewers herald it as game of the year, saying it will set the new standard of what a video game is and what can be done. It becomes the thing everybody talks about for the next few days, if not weeks to come.

...And repeat. For pretty much everyone.

We all try to out surprise each other. As if we are addicted to it. Sure, if you spoil EVERYTHING that is indeed bad. No one would play it, as they would have no need to play it. However, by everyone not posting any previews at all, not even a screenshot, it looks like the well has gone dry. The "General Project Screenshot/Video Thread" hasn't had an update for over a month. If all the heavy hitters are going to keep things secret, which is ultimately their choice, what about all the rookies? Where are they?

Where indeed. This caught my eye, and has stuck with me for a while.

Quote

You have no idea how many people in validation want to showcase their hacks.

While I am sure their hacks are pretty much terrible, or they have no idea what they are doing, with no ASM at all among other stuff, how do we personally tell them how to improve? How do we set them in the right direction? Even if they get trial member status, they are still walking on thin ice. One roadblock for the novice hack designer and it might mean an early end for them. A "I quit, this is just too hard" if you will. They ask questions which seem impossible to them but stupidly simple to regulars. Yet each and every one of them has potential to become good.

I am all for keeping Retro's quality. However I want to know if there is a site that has Retro's mindset in mind, but is designed around to teach this lesser level to become what Retro (and other quality sites like SSRG) expects. I guess this sounds like a sonic hacking "school," doesn't it. If we have raised the bar, why not show the pathway to get to the bar? The tutorials on the wiki only do so much. I am not repeat NOT asking for c/p tutorials for jump dash and homing attack so everybody can be just like Sonic Megamix, in fact I am strongly AGAINST that. I was thinking more hands on help from "teachers" to "students" than a simple cold tutorial on a wiki. A place where you teach about topics like level design, ASM, pixel art, and music. That and how to work all those crazy programs (Of course I know we do have some guides). I am sure that there are many out there willing to learn.

[Selbi]

SSRG is (or better yet was) a site to help Sonic hacking beginners out and get started with more advanced stuff, not only lame palette and layout hacks. The only problem, today it serves more as the place many Retro-rejected people go to, most of them being rejected there too.

So, while the idea of SSRG is just what you were asking for, it just doesn't work the way it used to anymore.

[Scarred Sun]

I'll just say that this is why I proposed something like this a while back. I'm still down for doing it, if only because it lets people who only want to design one act or something get an intro shot at something.

[Ritz]

GT Koopa, on 25 October 2011 - 02:47 AM, said:

The "General Project Screenshot/Video Thread" hasn't had an update for over a month.

I dropped a bombshell in there and only one person bothered to give me feedback. Do people even care anymore?

[Neo]

Ritz, on 26 October 2011 - 01:17 AM, said:

GT Koopa, on 25 October 2011 - 02:47 AM, said:

The "General Project Screenshot/Video Thread" hasn't had an update for over a month.

I dropped a bombshell in there and only one person bothered to give me feedback. Do people even care anymore?

We live in a society where you either provide something playable that lasts for more than just a while and is available for free and it gets played with for a bit but is promptly forgotten by everyone, or you don't and you're pretty much just ignored right off the bat.

I've been thinking of going back to trying to design my own Sonic game for a while now, and it's the prospect of having to deal with the game engine that's been putting me off (that and the fact that I suck balls at level design).

[Ritz]

Neo, on 26 October 2011 - 05:46 AM, said:

We live in a society where you either provide something playable that lasts for more than just a while and is available for free and it gets played with for a bit but is promptly forgotten by everyone, or you don't and you're pretty much just ignored right off the bat.

Uh, you sure? It's a thread for screenshots posted years in advance of any actual content, and it always seemed to be active before I showed up!

[Cinossu]

If by "minor leagues" you mean a separate forum such as "Basic E&RE" or something, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea, but mayhaps it might be better to create a single topic like a combination between the "General Project Screenshot/Video Thread", "Basic Questions & Answers Thread" and "Random Hack/Mini Project Thread", stickied so it garners attention.

There are entire forums that people avoid, and while avoiding a topic is easier it's less likely if there's new messages in it. I'll view topics just because there's something new in it, but sometimes with forums I'll just click the "Mark all as read" button and ignore it until the next time.

[Mr Lange]

I agree with this idea. The wiki has barely helped me start hacking, the process of which has done nothing but slip through my hands like sand. It took me weeks just to get a rom to recompile correctly from the Sonic 1 disassembly, and now I'm staring at a monolith of text that I only half comprehend, which is only one of several files of reams of code, and the only wiki tutorials worth a damn are geared towards hex hacking, which I understand even less of.

I've spent years helping people with animation and sound design practice, answering questions both complex and trivial, to fill in all the gaps left behind by the rest of the animation community that doesn't give a shit.
I asked for help with a few small issues related to rom hacking on the forum a while back and was given vague answers and quickly ignored after that in favor of some guy with an obscenely complicated assembly problem, meaning he was already skilled, yet I had no help to reach wherever this guy was.

[Jimmy Hedgehog]

Cinossu, on 26 October 2011 - 12:20 PM, said:

If by "minor leagues" you mean a separate forum such as "Basic E&RE" or something, I wouldn't be opposed to the idea, but mayhaps it might be better to create a single topic like a combination between the "General Project Screenshot/Video Thread", "Basic Questions & Answers Thread" and "Random Hack/Mini Project Thread", stickied so it garners attention.

This idea actually interests me greatly. Gives lesser experienced people to show their works, get some tips and get some feedback from their early workings, before going after their own topic with those rather large expectations looming over them.

[Chimpo]

Your example is absurd. Comparing a company that has the money and power to develop a title (and for some stupid reason, not market it) to a bunch of people doing this as a hobby in their spare time is ridiculous.

If anything, no one wants to show anything because the work simply isn't anywhere near done to start showing it off. Even companies don't reveal theory project the moment they green light it. It's a year before the release that they start promoting the shit out of it.

As for the lesser guys, there is nothing stopping the approved members from coming to this part of the forums, make a thread and ask for help.

And that comment I made was referring to people's stupid hack ideas like "Sonic 1 2 and 3 ALL IN ONE GAME!"

Those members weren't approved due to other qualifications.

There's absolutely nothing stopping these people from making threads here. It's not like this place is active as hell where a thread gets pushed to the second page. Only thing that's stopping them is their own lack of initiative.

[Mr. Mash]

Chimpo, on 27 October 2011 - 05:48 AM, said:

And that comment I made was referring to people's stupid hack ideas like "Sonic 1 2 and 3 ALL IN ONE GAME!"

funny thing about that idea http://forums.sonicr...showtopic=25863
I don't think there should be a seperate forum for beginners, but maybe if there was a sticky thread for them, or if they were encouraged to use the random/mini hack thread then it'd be a little bit easier for them to know where to put their stuff.

[Selbi]

Mr. Mash, on 27 October 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

or if they were encouraged to use the random/mini hack thread

How about a mod finally sticks said topic? I never understood why such a major thread is being ignored but a thread about people who can hardware-test stuff gets sticked instantly.

[Cinossu]

Selbi, on 27 October 2011 - 07:53 AM, said:

Mr. Mash, on 27 October 2011 - 06:51 AM, said:

or if they were encouraged to use the random/mini hack thread

How about a mod finally sticks said topic? I never understood why such a major thread is being ignored but a thread about people who can hardware-test stuff gets sticked instantly.

I always thought the same, then completely forgot about it once I had the power to. :P Doing so now.