[Eggomaticwaffles]

Hey all,

I was going through my Sonic playlist this morning and though I've listened to the soundtracks to S3&K and Chaotix hundreds of times, it became really evident that melodically, they sound SUPER similar. One of my favorite Sonic tracks of all time, "Door Into Summer" sounds like it could've easily followed 'Hydrocity' or 'Chrome Gadget' from S3. In fact, there's a great mashup on YouTube of Endless Mine and Door Into Summer and with some minor tweaking they blend pretty seamlessly.

I realize the mid-nineties (and the games from this era) had a distinct sound and style to them but the Chaotix soundtrack sounds like it could've been swapped into either S3 or S&K and the games would still feel essentially the same. Perhaps this has already been covered, but did S3&K and Chaotix share composers? Have we ever gotten any clarity on who composed what (on a track-by-track basis) for S3&K?

[minichapman]

Not to be rude but wasn't there a thread for this somewhere?

[Eggomaticwaffles]

I dug around for one but didn't come across it...I would've bumped it if so (sorry!)

[minichapman]

Sorry, I was thinking of the ALMOST music comparison thread.

[XCubed]

Speaking of which, last week an had an epiphany about Sonic 3&K's music for the levels. And no, I'm not talking about Michael Jackson. I realized that there are different "styles" of songs within the game that sound like they were composed by different people. As in, you can hear that Person 1 composed songs A, B, C and Person 2 composed songs D, E, F. Regardless of the drum sets, regardless of everything. Even with some sort of input from MJ, he still wasn't the only one (or group) to make songs and jingles for Sonic3/S&K. I haven't really grouped the songs into categories yet with the obvious exceptions of Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base. I even want to think that some of the Act 2s were done separately from people who did Act 1. I can't quite put my finger on it but as an example. Death Egg Acts 1 and 2 are very close in similarites/style, but Angel Island, Hydrocity, and Lava Reef have dramatically different Act 2s compared to Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis. I'm on the fence about Flying Battery though.

If that didn't make sense, then it's not you, it's me.

[sonicthesnot]

XCubed, on 08 October 2011 - 02:11 PM, said:

Speaking of which, last week an had an epiphany about Sonic 3&K's music for the levels. And no, I'm not talking about Michael Jackson. I realized that there are different "styles" of songs within the game that sound like they were composed by different people. As in, you can hear that Person 1 composed songs A, B, C and Person 2 composed songs D, E, F. Regardless of the drum sets, regardless of everything. Even with some sort of input from MJ, he still wasn't the only one (or group) to make songs and jingles for Sonic3/S&K. I haven't really grouped the songs into categories yet with the obvious exceptions of Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base. I even want to think that some of the Act 2s were done separately from people who did Act 1. I can't quite put my finger on it but as an example. Death Egg Acts 1 and 2 are very close in similarites/style, but Angel Island, Hydrocity, and Lava Reef have dramatically different Act 2s compared to Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis. I'm on the fence about Flying Battery though.

If that didn't make sense, then it's not you, it's me.

Howard Drossin confirmed that the Act 2s were remixed by one of the SEGA sound programmers.

I'd also put Marble Garden with the MJ tracks -- no doubt in my mind MJ did that one.

Also, there's no doubt in my mind that Doomsday Zone and the Final Boss music were composed by the same person. Both contain the same riff and the basslines are nearly identical (someone posted the bassline rips on Youtube.) Also, Flying Battery and the S&K minor boss theme are also identical as well.

I highly doubt we'll get exact composer credits. Cube Corp (a music contractor) wrote 8 tracks for the same, and I'm guessing Opus Corp contributed some as well (maybe it might be worth contacting these guys...), as well as a slew of other composers. From the interviews up to this point, it seems like noone (including SEGA employees) has any clue whose music made it in the game or who wrote what tracks LOL. The fact that 17 years have passed since the game was developed doesn't help either.

This post has been edited by sonicthesnot: 08 October 2011 - 03:01 PM

[LOst]

Eggomaticwaffles, on 08 October 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:

I realize the mid-nineties (and the games from this era) had a distinct sound and style to them but the Chaotix soundtrack sounds like it could've been swapped into either S3 or S&K and the games would still feel essentially the same. Perhaps this has already been covered, but did S3&K and Chaotix share composers? Have we ever gotten any clarity on who composed what (on a track-by-track basis) for S3&K?

Chaotix and S3 did not share any composers, or styles I am afraid. I don't agree with you when matching the music you suggested.

Sonic 3&K has such a huge range of music styles, and Iizuka said it was great to be able to choose music for S3&K:

Iizuka said:

This zone (talking about Flying Battery Zone) has particularly distinctive music, doesn't it. With Sonic 1 and 2, we were working with Nakamura-san, so we couldn't get any extra music, but since with 3 we had the music done in-house, we were able to have a whole lot of music made up for us. We picked out from that selection the music that fit each zone best.

Knuckles Chaotix is VERY limited in its music style range, and pretty much only have one style copied multiple times, the style in which you can put the lyrics "In the nights, dream delight, I want to see you standing there" (the middle part of Door Into Summer), and "Evening Star". To put a Sonic composer name to that style, Naofumi Hataya is the name, as he used that same trick in "Sonic CD - Metallic Madness Good Future", "Virtua Racing Delux - Replay", "Nights into Dreams - Title", and "Burning Rangers - I just smile". He is NOT credited in Knuckles Chaotix! Also, another music that uses that trick is in the Japanese hentai movie "Kohime" (have you seen it? One of the best out there if you are into porn).

sonicthesnot, on 08 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

I'd also put Marble Garden with the MJ tracks -- no doubt in my mind MJ did that one.

Oh yeah, that is something I agree on! Even though the quailty is more midi than Launch Base and Carnival Night, the guitar cord is so Speed Demon
(listen at 3:45 for 15 seconds or so, just to that riff). Da, da, da, da, dada! Marble Garden?


evilhamwizard will probably fill you in with who made Hydrocity Zone Act 2, as I will not spoil his amazing work.

This post has been edited by LOst: 08 October 2011 - 03:22 PM

[Metal Man88]

I have to agree with LOst here. I've listened to S3K's music over and over again. Chaotix's music is a one-note repetition of the same style over and over again, whereas S3K has multiple distinct styles. There is little overlap between any of S3K's style and the one, monophonic-ish Chaotix style.

Certainly both are Genesis tunes, but Chaotix in a way reminds me more of primitive early Genesis music than the more modern stuff used with S3K and similar games.

[SpeedStarTMQ]

I always thought that Knuckles Chaotix music and the 2 Player assortment of tracks from Sonic 3 and Knuckles sounded very similar in style, and then I saw this topic, and thought "Well, not just me then!". This one in particular sounds like it could be from Chaotix;

Obviously the sound output from the 32X allows for greater quality music, but it sounds quite similar. I'm just guessing that SEGA had a particular style for Sonic duruing those few years, and thus the stuff sounded similar. I've had a search, and far as I can see, no one obvious stands out as being someone who worked on both games for the music. Maybe we're missing something...

[Mykonos]

sonicthesnot, on 08 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Howard Drossin confirmed that the Act 2s were remixed by one of the SEGA sound programmers.

I think I read somewhere it was Masaru Setsumaru, was it not? Just making sure my memory isn't failing me/the information was incorrect.

[LOst]

Mykonos, on 08 October 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

sonicthesnot, on 08 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Howard Drossin confirmed that the Act 2s were remixed by one of the SEGA sound programmers.

I think I read somewhere it was Masaru Setsumaru, was it not? Just making sure my memory isn't failing me/the information was incorrect.

What Drossin didn't know was that Setsumaru only arranged his music, and assumed he did all the other music as well including remixes. Setsumaru as a composer is not worth Sonic 3 quality. Just listen to his songs in Sonic Adventure such as "Danger is Imminent", "Event Fanfare for Dr EGGMAN", "Tornade Scramble for Sky Chase" and think Sonic 3... It doesn't work.
Also, thinking that Setsumaru knows English after listening to Samba de Amigo's "Hey! we're the sonicteam", don't think so!

I hate writing bad stuff about Setsumaru publicly. I don't have anything against him, and assuming things from very little solid facts makes this action even worse

[SteelBrush]

Wasn't there discussion regarding Tornado Scramble, about if it was composed for when SA was to be a Saturn game and that it would have used the Saturn's internal soundchip. I may be incorrect but I'm sure the quality of the intruments used has been brought up before.

[XCubed]

sonicthesnot, on 08 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Howard Drossin confirmed that the Act 2s were remixed by one of the SEGA sound programmers.

Mykonos, on 08 October 2011 - 06:05 PM, said:

sonicthesnot, on 08 October 2011 - 02:56 PM, said:

Howard Drossin confirmed that the Act 2s were remixed by one of the SEGA sound programmers.

I think I read somewhere it was Masaru Setsumaru, was it not? Just making sure my memory isn't failing me/the information was incorrect.

See, this makes sense in a way. This guy basically had (has?) one of my dream jobs. Even when I am hit with writer's block for original compositions, I can remix the shit out of anything. While I find the majority of his Act 2 remixes quite clever....it doesn't explain the laziness of Carnival Night, Ice Cap, and Launch Base Act 2s (unless the originals were done last minute and he only had time to remove voices and as a 2 second bass difference with Carnival Night's Act 2), as well as Death Egg Act 2. To this very day something feels fishy about the music for CNZ, ICZ, and LBZ. Out of all the level music made for the game (not even thinking about S3's miniboss and Knuckles theme, though it's probably related) these are the ones that stand out instrumentation wise...

[RGamer2009]

Eggomaticwaffles, on 08 October 2011 - 01:26 PM, said:

Hey all,

I was going through my Sonic playlist this morning and though I've listened to the soundtracks to S3&K and Chaotix hundreds of times, it became really evident that melodically, they sound SUPER similar. One of my favorite Sonic tracks of all time, "Door Into Summer" sounds like it could've easily followed 'Hydrocity' or 'Chrome Gadget' from S3. In fact, there's a great mashup on YouTube of Endless Mine and Door Into Summer and with some minor tweaking they blend pretty seamlessly.

I realize the mid-nineties (and the games from this era) had a distinct sound and style to them but the Chaotix soundtrack sounds like it could've been swapped into either S3 or S&K and the games would still feel essentially the same. Perhaps this has already been covered, but did S3&K and Chaotix share composers? Have we ever gotten any clarity on who composed what (on a track-by-track basis) for S3&K?

Is it this one? Cause I made it...