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Sonic CD now out for everything except Nintendo consoles

#31 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:21 PM

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View PostThe Taxman, on 22 August 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 22 August 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

View PostmuteKi, on 22 August 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:

View PostRhikoruNa, on 22 August 2011 - 05:58 PM, said:

Just let us use the original menus, maybe support for a decent Render Filter instead of that really crappy one they use (Something similar to the hq4x filter in KEGA Fusion would be delightful, with of course an option for a normal filter), 60 fps, and I'll settle for that.

Throw in real widescreen (no not stretchscreen, REAL widescreen) and support for both soundtracks and SEGA TAKE ALL MY MONEY.

But who are we kidding? Will just be another Vintage Collection/Backbone port. At least peeps who don't use emulators/bought Gems Collection/have the original SEGA CD copy/owned the PC port will get to play it.


Personally the only filter I like in Fusion is the CVBS blur -- which is absolutely wonderful for games like Ristar.


Such a filter is also necessary - the genesis is built for CRT screens, and the imperfections of RF modulation or component input. Simply put, the sega genesis image is wrong on a modern TV. It literally doesn't work.

I've been playing my Genesis and Sega CD all week on this big-ass CRT tv I finally hooked up, and you'd be shocked at how convincing the transparency effects caused by stipple shading are. Simply put, it LOOKS transparent. Stipple shading, with a CRT TV, essentially let the Sega Genesis do transparency. Such effects, as well as the smoothness of gradients, are flat out broken with a modern tv. The genesis used a lot of neat tricks that modern tvs can't replicate. The result is an ugly mess - look at something like Earthworm Jim. The game is absolutely full of wicked transparency effects, which, when viewed on a CRT TV, actually work and look unbelievable for the hardware. On a modern tv, however, it looks like a harsh mesh of blocks which is far less impressive.

The filter you listed above actually fixes all these effects, and lets modern monitors and tvs view genesis games CORRECTLY, without blurring the screen. There is another filter which is slightly more accurate, in that it attempts to simulate the rainbow banding you got from old CRT tvs when you used stipple transparency, but it doesn't look right (the tint of the transparency changes between red, blue, and green as you move, where as on real hardware you get static bands of rainbows within the transparency at all times).

tl;dr: If you don't use this filter, sega genesis games don't work correctly visually.


Of course, another solution is to just flat out replace the mesh effects with true blending.


SSF, the full speed sega saturn emulator, does this. I agree this is the best solution.

#32 User is offline JaxTH 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:30 PM

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I don't even like Sonic CD but I'll get it.

Also it will have the US music. Just to troll JP and EU. =P

#33 User is offline Sonic Warrior TJ 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:33 PM

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A buddy I went to high school with is going to be at PAX, and was asking people on facebook if there was anything they wanted him to check out. I asked him to at least stroll by Sonic CD and see about the ugly SEGA Vintage Collection title screen.

#34 User is offline Rockman Zero 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:36 PM

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Give me the JP soundtrack and it's a buy.

Given Sega's history, I have this feeling that they'll disappoint enthusiasts of the JP soundtrack.

#35 User is offline RhikoruNa 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:39 PM

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View PostCooljerk, on 22 August 2011 - 08:21 PM, said:

View PostThe Taxman, on 22 August 2011 - 08:19 PM, said:

View PostCooljerk, on 22 August 2011 - 07:54 PM, said:

View PostmuteKi, on 22 August 2011 - 07:46 PM, said:


Personally the only filter I like in Fusion is the CVBS blur -- which is absolutely wonderful for games like Ristar.


Such a filter is also necessary - the genesis is built for CRT screens, and the imperfections of RF modulation or component input. Simply put, the sega genesis image is wrong on a modern TV. It literally doesn't work.

I've been playing my Genesis and Sega CD all week on this big-ass CRT tv I finally hooked up, and you'd be shocked at how convincing the transparency effects caused by stipple shading are. Simply put, it LOOKS transparent. Stipple shading, with a CRT TV, essentially let the Sega Genesis do transparency. Such effects, as well as the smoothness of gradients, are flat out broken with a modern tv. The genesis used a lot of neat tricks that modern tvs can't replicate. The result is an ugly mess - look at something like Earthworm Jim. The game is absolutely full of wicked transparency effects, which, when viewed on a CRT TV, actually work and look unbelievable for the hardware. On a modern tv, however, it looks like a harsh mesh of blocks which is far less impressive.

The filter you listed above actually fixes all these effects, and lets modern monitors and tvs view genesis games CORRECTLY, without blurring the screen. There is another filter which is slightly more accurate, in that it attempts to simulate the rainbow banding you got from old CRT tvs when you used stipple transparency, but it doesn't look right (the tint of the transparency changes between red, blue, and green as you move, where as on real hardware you get static bands of rainbows within the transparency at all times).

tl;dr: If you don't use this filter, sega genesis games don't work correctly visually.


Of course, another solution is to just flat out replace the mesh effects with true blending.


SSF, the full speed sega saturn emulator, does this. I agree this is the best solution.


Interesting stuff about the CRT filters/TV! Tried it out for a bit and was pretty surprised with the unique difference in look.

I'm going to be honest...I've never played a Sonic game on a TV that didn't have at least composite or higher (although technically the old computer I played Sonic 3, 3&K, CD, R on might count). Heck...I've never played a Genesis. Blasphemous? Perhaps...but I've always wanted one, and in fact, there's a really nice game store in town that sells old game consoles and controllers...perhaps I shall see what they got soon. I started classics before modern games, but it was always through the PC ports (I hunted down the SEGA Smash Pack 2 for PC just because I REALLY wanted to play Sonic 2, took ages to finally find it.), or Gems/Mega Collection.

Anyways, really interesting seeing some of the quotes in this topic...

View PostTweaker, on 22 August 2011 - 06:11 PM, said:

Hahaha. You guys are funny.


View PostSlingerland, on 22 August 2011 - 06:12 PM, said:

This thread is going to be hilarious.


View PostThe Taxman, on 22 August 2011 - 06:25 PM, said:

No Comment :ssh:


Not sure if serious...*glare*

SonicRetro, I am suspicious.

#36 User is online Vinchenz 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:45 PM

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Hopefully it'll be a decent port.

If there's no option for the JP OST then I'll be hard-pressed to buy it, though.

#37 User is offline JaxTH 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:46 PM

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View PostRockman Zero, on 22 August 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Give me the JP soundtrack and it's a buy.

Given Sega's history, I have this feeling that they'll disappoint enthusiasts of the JP soundtrack.

SEGA of America is in charge of digital downloads by the way.

#38 User is offline Retroman 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:48 PM

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This is really good news! Except I'm not very excited for this...

unless this means sonic cd gets a facelift and hd visuals for us to drool over, then that would be really awesome!
This post has been edited by Retroman: 22 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

#39 User is offline Cooljerk 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 08:49 PM

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View PostRhikoruNa, on 22 August 2011 - 08:39 PM, said:


[snip]

Interesting stuff about the CRT filters/TV! Tried it out for a bit and was pretty surprised with the unique difference in look.

I'm going to be honest...I've never played a Sonic game on a TV that didn't have at least composite or higher (although technically the old computer I played Sonic 3, 3&K, CD, R on might count). Heck...I've never played a Genesis. Blasphemous? Perhaps...but I've always wanted one, and in fact, there's a really nice game store in town that sells old game consoles and controllers...perhaps I shall see what they got soon. I started classics before modern games, but it was always through the PC ports (I hunted down the SEGA Smash Pack 2 for PC just because I REALLY wanted to play Sonic 2, took ages to finally find it.), or Gems/Mega Collection.


Man, I was right smack thick into Sega just at their peak. From the Sega Master System all the way to the dreamcast, I had every single sega system, portable, add-on, you name it. I got them all in order, as they were released, usually the christmas they were released. I played thousands of hours of Sega Channel on my old 27" CRT TV.

I have a massive video game collection, and I've kept this CRT in storage in pristine condition because I knew one day I'd set up a game room. I've been finally setting it up here the last few weeks and finally brought the TV out last weekend. I hadn't played classic Sega Genesis on a CRT TV in about 6 years at that point, and I remember, when I was young, looking at the waterfalls in Sonic 1, wondering how they were done since I knew the Genesis couldn't do transparency, yet there was clearly a transparent texture on my screen. I had chalked it up to fuzzy memory exaggerating the effect, until I began to play games which heavily utilized the stipple effect. Games like Earthworm Jim and Eternal Champions CD look phenomenal on a classic TV. Back in the days when everybody had a CRT tv, the reported difference in graphics between the SNES and Genesis wasn't nearly as large as people believe it is now. These stipple effects would drastically boost the number of colors a Genesis could produce, and smarter developers would go overboard with these tricks to give the Genesis transparency effects that rivaled the SNES. Terminator on the Sega CD used Transparency all over the place, including some big screen filling areas. It's very impressive. Contra Hard Corps also used it.

The thing is, these effects don't work on modern screens and I think that's where the general perception of the Genesis being far, far behind the SNES has come from. I suspect that, by now, most of the people who have played Genesis games have done so on improper TVs or monitors and thus know nothing but the harsh checkered-box genesis visuals that such screens provide. Back in my day, the genesis produced smooth gradients and easy on the eyes slightly-fuzzy pictures. It was much less harsh overall.
This post has been edited by Cooljerk: 22 August 2011 - 08:52 PM

#40 User is offline Chibisteven 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:24 PM

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View PostJaxTH, on 22 August 2011 - 08:46 PM, said:

View PostRockman Zero, on 22 August 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Given Sega's history, I have this feeling that they'll disappoint enthusiasts of the JP soundtrack.

SEGA of America is in charge of digital downloads by the way.


I'm fan of the original Japanese soundtrack, it fits the game better. The only real stick out theme for the American soundtrack was Sonic Boom and the rest of is out of place.

But, I'm not holding my breathe. I'll just stick to original hardware and emulators like KEGA, so I'm not forced to listen to American soundtrack when I'm playing the game.

#41 User is offline DimensionWarped 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:33 PM

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You know, depending on the quality of the port and other factors, you might consider getting it just to be supportive.

#42 User is offline OSM 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:36 PM

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Please don't be a Backbone port. Please.

#43 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:40 PM

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"Good effort SEGA, but this isn't what I want. Nonetheless, take my money!"

Did I get you right, DW? If I did, I really don't agree. I've said it elsewhere, but I couldn't care any less about how much quality a game has if I don't want it. If the soundtrack of the game puts me off to the point where I don't want it, so be it. Now in this case, I just don't like Sonic CD. But if I did, I wouldn't be buying it with the US soundtrack. It's weird, to me. It's like playing Devil May Cry with Werehog battle music. It feels incorrect to me, and that's off putting. I'd rather just play the game on my PC or on my Xbox through NeoGenesis or something.

#44 User is offline Shade Vortex 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:53 PM

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Eh, I like Sonic CD. I'll check this out while I'm at PAX (yes, I'm going).

Not that I'll actually get it on XBLA,
Spoiler
since I could hook up my Sega CD if I was desperate to play it. It probably still works.

#45 User is offline DimensionWarped 

Posted 22 August 2011 - 09:54 PM

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Not. Quite.

Just be considerate of the details surrounding the port before writing it off for some arbitrary reason. There can always be more at play than "SEGA releases another Genesis port" after all.

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