[Tito.]

Warning: Text wall.

Shame. I liked Sonic 4, but I wasn't looking forward to Episode II.

I liked Sonic 4. I guess. Especially since it was a $5 downloadable game for my iPod. But when this is the tagline for the new game:



Is where I have problems.

Sonic 4 was marketed as a sequel to Sonic 3 & Knuckles. And I don't know how Sonic 4 is a sequel to anything when the entire game is just a watered-down version of Sonic 1 and 2.

I know everyone wants to scream out about the physics but as a person who honestly didn't think too much about the physics when I played this game, I have to say I had completely different reasons for not liking Sonic 4. I mean, you have four zones in Sonic 1 and 2... the Splash Hill Zone which is basically Green Hill Zone from Sonic 1, Lost Labyrinth Zone which is basically the Labyrinth Zone from Sonic 1... Casino zone which is basically Casino Night Zone from Sonic 2... and then the Mad Gear Zone, which is basically the Metropolis Zone from Sonic 2.

All of the bosses are re-used from old games (except the Lost Labyrinth Zone... the only original boss in the whole game, not including the almost identical replica of the original chase scene in Sonic 1 in the third act of Lost Labyrinth), all of the badniks are re-used from old games... I'm not even sure what the storyline is. I hope it's not saving the animals like it was in Sonic 1. Cus even that'd be recycling. And I'd hope a sequel to Sonic 3&K would be something more epic than that.

Plus the game was really really easy. A "true" Sonic 4 to me would be brand new levels, Classic Sonic, an actually hard game, original bosses, and a story that expands upon Sonic 3&K. I beat Sonic 4 the first time with 141 lives. That's how easy it was.

Sonic 4 was a good game and all (like I said, I downloaded it to my iPod for $5... and later to my PS3 in a bundle pack with Sonic Adventure and Sonic 1 and 2 for $20)... but the thing I hate most about it is that it's called Sonic 4.

Actually, I have no idea why they even did Sonic 4 at all since they have been planning Sonic Generations since 2008. Because now it's just redundant. We got Classic Sonic, classic-style gameplay, GOOD classic style gameplay, and although the zones are re-used, for the most part we have original levels. Plus, everyone hated Sonic 4 (it gets way too much hate though, in my opinion... people seem forget it's a downloadable game and not a "real" one).

I would honestly just prefer if they re-booted Sonic 4 as a whole, and make an actual Sonic 4 game featuring Classic Sonic, Classic Tails, and Classic Knuckles kicking Robotnik ass. They could market it as what happened between Sonic 3&K and Sonic Adventure. I would like this game so much more if it was named "New Sonic the Hedgehog" or something... anything besides "Sonic the Hedgehog 4".

I honestly don't even see the point of Episode II. I was literally talking about it with a friend earlier today and I was telling him that the reasons above were the reasons why I didn't even think Episode II would be released. What a way to serve up some crow, Retro

Not trying to stir up trouble, just my opinion on Sonic 4. They should reboot it and take it a different direction.

This post has been edited by Tito.: 23 August 2011 - 08:21 PM

[XCubed]

I am all levels of disappoint right now. But on the other hand, it gives me a hell of a lot more time to finish up and clean up my Sonic 4 Episode 2 Music Proposal album!

[Tito.]

jasonchrist, on 23 August 2011 - 06:04 PM, said:

If we want a truly classic game, we're gonna have to starve this beast and let it die. Let's not encourage them to make more of this shit.

For the sake of continuity, I can't see episode 2 being drastically different to 1 (seeing as they actually think it's good) so fuck it all! I've seen Generations 3DS and Dimps are still obviously not up to the task. Even if episode 2 is the perfect classic we've always dreamed of, I have major OCD, so the knowledge that episode 1 exists will still piss me off.

Start fresh, Sega! Stop proclaiming E1 as being "well received" and "successful". Stop sugar coating it, apologize for it, learn from it, and move the fuck on! And then if you still can't get it right on the next attempt, just give up on the idea of making classics altogether for the sake of us all.

I agree with all of this.

Take it in a new direction. Reboot Sonic 4 so we can all laugh it off as a joke, or remake one or all of the classic games with the new Classic Sonic style of gameplay. I'd much prefer that.

[W.A.C.]

The fact it's unlikely there will be an episode 3 is good news to me. I don't want to have to buy three overpriced games...though I'm part of the problem because I bought Sonic 4: Episode 1 as well. :/

Cooljerk, on 23 August 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

The critical reception to Sonic 4 was overwhelmingly positive by basically every major review outlet.

[LINK] [LINK]

You are definitely wrong on that.

[muteKi]

I just wish they'd have called it Sonic 2.5 from the get-go. I don't think I ever liked the name.

[360]

Cooljerk, on 23 August 2011 - 08:01 PM, said:

David The Lurker, on 23 August 2011 - 07:53 PM, said:

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 1 was not a well received title.

The point is that the biggest sites usually gave glowing reviews, and that the meta critic scores are weighed down by lesser known sites. The critical reception to Sonic 4 was overwhelmingly positive by basically every major review outlet.

How are we going to settle this then? Wikipedia!

Quote

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode I has received mixed but mostly positive reviews from critics. IGN gave the console version of the first episode a score of 8.0 and an Editor's Choice award, calling it "short but sweet and well worth downloading."[37] They rated the iOS version 7.5, criticizing a lack of Retina Display or leaderboard support for that version.[39] GamesRadar gave the game a score of 9/10, calling it "deserving of the name, Sonic the Hedgehog 4."[35] 1UP.com gave it a B rank, praising the game's speed while criticizing some occasional poor design such as boss battles and puzzles.[40] Popzara said the game was "as if a long-lost 'good' Sonic title was left to defrost in today's modern HD, graphics-hungry world.[41] GameTrailers gave the game a 7.5 score, calling it a worthy investment for Sonic fans.[42] Digital Spy gave the game three out of five stars, with reviewer Liam Martin saying with regards to living up to the game's hype: "Despite some issues with the size of the game and its difficulty (it's very easy), the answer is yes, but only just."[38]

However, some reviewers were less positive. GameSpot gave the game a score of 6.5, criticising some bad level design and dull bosses.[34] Edge gave it 6/10, stating "unchanged, old school design decisions can be as much of a deterrent as an attraction."[32] Joystiq gave it a 2.5 stars out of 5, calling the graphics "static and devoid of artistry" and Sonic's physics "completely wrong", ultimately making the game "an unsatisfying mishmash of remake and homage."[36] Wired gave the game 4/10, saying "it feels like the last nail in the franchise's coffin." It was also criticized for its unappealing music, and that nearly all the stages were simply redesigns of levels from Sonic the Hedgehog and Sonic the Hedgehog 2.[43] Strategy Informer rated it a 4/10, calling it "an utter mess of a game" that "feels sluggish, broken and lazy".[44]

Yeah it's obvious from reading the above that the casual-mainstream publications praised the game (first paragraph) whilst the hardcore-enthusiast press slammed it (second). This validates what David was saying. Those that knew what they were talking about had a negative response whilst the "PlayStation generation" (or rather the casual end of the spectrum) had a positive reaction.

There's a split here. Notice how the hardcore press (Edge, GameSpot) and tech-focused websites (Joystiq, Wired) slammed it.

This post has been edited by 360: 23 August 2011 - 08:33 PM

[RGamer2009]

Can't we just refer this as Sonic Rush - Boost HD and call it a day?

But yeah, this game, although I enjoyed it, was not the game we were waiting 16 years for. I believe that Sonic Generations is more deserving of such a moniker.

This game is a poorly-made flash game with sub-par physics, boring flat backgrounds, and takes a couple of levels from Sonic 1 and 2 (with accompanying bosses to boot!) and just gives them a new coat of paint. Even the last level is a rehash off of Death Egg Zone.

What Sega thought we wanted was a return to form.

NO. That is wrong.

What we wanted was a return to the challenges, the new level experiences, and awesome level design with proper Classic Sonic Physics. That's IT!

Can Dimps still deliver this promise? Yes, although they will have to rethink the direction they are taking this title. They either need to scrap what has been made entirely and start anew, or show us they have truly learned what a Classic Sonic game means.

And as far as I can see with Generations 3DS backing me up, they still DON'T know. Copying the level designs so you don't have to make your own, Dimps?

I will wait and see what happens with this new episode. It could go either way at this point.

They know what we want. Now they have to implement it.

[Clutch]

If there isn't going to be an Episode 3, the ideal course of action for me would be to make Sonic 4: Episode 2 a self-sufficient, higher quality (read: not looking like an upscaled old cell phone game and feeling so strange to play) game that can effectively be considered the Sonic 4 and write Episode 1 off as a sort of prologue to it.

What I want isn't always what I expect though.

[Nora Kisaragi]

I haven't bought Sonic 4, the demo completely turned me off.

I shall wait for the episode 2 demo before I consider buying episode 2, but I am never buying episode 1.

By the way, the thing I hate most about sonic games nowadays, is how pathetically EASY they are. They're completely watered down. I remember sonic 1-3 kicking my ass until I mastered it.

This post has been edited by Nora Kisaragi: 23 August 2011 - 09:31 PM

[Dark Sonic]

Nora Kisaragi, on 23 August 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

I haven't bought Sonic 4, the demo completely turned me off.

I shall wait for the episode 2 demo before I consider buying episode 2, but I am never buying episode 1.

By the way, the thing I hate most about sonic games nowadays, is how pathetically EASY they are. They're completely watered down. I remember sonic 1-3 kicking my ass until I mastered it.

Eh, idk as much about Sonic 3, however I'll agree with you on Sonic 2 and Sonic 1 (Mainly just due to Labyrinth zone,,, I still hate that level), Sonic 2 took me 9 years to beat thanks to that final boss DX

[Tito.]

Dark Sonic, on 23 August 2011 - 09:33 PM, said:

Nora Kisaragi, on 23 August 2011 - 09:30 PM, said:

I haven't bought Sonic 4, the demo completely turned me off.

I shall wait for the episode 2 demo before I consider buying episode 2, but I am never buying episode 1.

By the way, the thing I hate most about sonic games nowadays, is how pathetically EASY they are. They're completely watered down. I remember sonic 1-3 kicking my ass until I mastered it.

Eh, idk as much about Sonic 3, however I'll agree with you on Sonic 2 and Sonic 1 (Mainly just due to Labyrinth zone,,, I still hate that level), Sonic 2 took me 9 years to beat thanks to that final boss DX

I've never beaten Sonic 2, unless Sonic 2 Heroes counts X|

[LordOfSquad]

Meh. I just hope this one is still coming out on the Wii so I can just yoink it off some download site. Episode 1 was decent, but not worth my money. I'm not expecting anything better from this.

[MegaDash]

herewegoagain.bmp

Pros: I admit it's fun to play because it's easy to just turn your brain off, chill out, and lose yourself in a contemporary bath of nostalgic HD remake, imperfect physics or not. You technically haven't played the stages before even though they look like old levels, especially Mad Gear Act 3 and Lost Labyrinth Act 2. It looks pretty, sounds close enough to the "Genesis sound" (unless you got the special Wii Edition MIDI-class soundtrack), and plays close enough to that style despite having a homing attack. Speaking of which, the game is perfectly playable with the homing attack. It's pretty fun to use. Also the zones do improve in playability and fun after the first two zones, whereas the first two zones, while still pretty fun and full of plenty to do ...

Cons: ... still felt sort of empty and vapid. The game feels cheaply made, what with jittery physics as opposed to smooth inertial physics, unimaginatively lifted and reimagined level tropes that only seem to take up valuable space for something else, and rehashed bosses with a pathetic "pinch mode". You could cut out all the bosses from the game and I guarantee you wouldn't miss them. Not even the final boss, even though pinch mode actually made a real difference. They're already been done, and nothing new has been done with them that makes any difference outside of the final boss; they're utterly difficult to justify as a full lineup of bosses in a new Sonic game. I can partly forgive the stages for plagiarizing Green Hill and other stages yet again because they changed the level design and made everything shiny and poppy, but the bosses are a wasted opportunity.

Overall, Sonic 4 is a solid 2D "classic" game that people clearly enjoy playing, because it is enjoyable to play despite not being everything it said it was going to be. Why? Because it comes closer than any game since Sonic 3&K to feeling like a classic game without actually being Sonic 3&K or its predecessors. The kicker is the level designs weren't much better than their inspirations or well balanced, and that coupled with the passable physics programming and resulting "wonky game feel" is what pisses people off about this game being called what it is: "Sonic 4 as you imagined it." It's not that fans of the classic games can't enjoy it, it's that some if not most don't see it as that, and for the most part that's what they expected. It puts many fans of the old Sonic games in an awkward position of being called a retrofag for disliking the game, because everyone thinks Sonic 4 is exactly what they've been asking for. And I think this is where retro fans need to give a little and give credit where it's due: even though Sonic 4 misses a crucial mark and cuts corners, it's still a pretty good game despite being disappointing. It does plenty right while doing so much wrong.

It's between good and bad, but leaning very closely towards good. It's pleasantly mediocre. It just didn't go all the way and didn't hit all the right marks, which is frustrating because it's been over a decade now and even the fans can make a decent classic Sonic game based in the groundwork of the first 3 & CD. However it's difficult for me to really get mad at Sonic 4 without admitting to myself I'm just getting mad to be satisfy a desire to be super-critical, because getting mad feels good, and to relate to the big Retro crowd a bit. I'd give it a 6.5 out of 10; a passing grade. Not great, but good enough for the time being. Not worth $15, but totally understandable why it sold.

Won't work the second time. I can't say I'm looking forward to Episode II being more of the same, but with "new" level tropes that try to cover the same typical level designs I'd rather not have in a game that bills itself as "classic" and "retro". It's just sending mixed messages and it's irritating. Then again, if they can still make the game fun like E1, introduce new better bosses and a new better special stage, and polish up all the rough edges then I can't say I won't buy it. However if E1 is any indication, I feel E2 will just be another game that tries to be classic without actually succeeding, so the only thing that can save it yet is the genuine fun factor. Yes, even with the physics. Remember: it isn't just the physics, it's the level design. Music too.

[360]

Our main man Ken Balough posted this on the Sega forums back in February:

Quote

I can tell you that Ep II is not a Sonic CD remake. I can't comment really on anything else – but I can tell you you are going to see new zones that look really cool. The idea is to introduce new zones with things you haven't seen.

At least we know for certain that we're getting new zones this time. The only other solid information we have is that Sega increased the budget for Episode 2 (also posted by Ken on the Sega forums in the same timeframe) so we'll see if that actually translates into accurate physics, more levels and so on.

[Hero Of Fate]

We can only hope. I'm optimistic, because Sonic 4 was at least pretty fun despite its flaws. If they can fix those, added to these new zones, we could be looking at a very good game.