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Long Forgotten Sonic Heroes Tech Look what I found

#16 User is offline Vaiz 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 03:59 PM

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QUOTE (DustArma @ Mar 12 2011, 12:47 PM)
I guess the levels would require some minor edits, to make up for the lack of Fly/Power formations and blue tornado.


Easy, for blue tornado and fly; just stick in some light dash ring trails, or some enemies in a homing attack chain. Better yet, I'd love to actually play as tails or knuckles in these levels.

For power formation, yeah, I guess you'd have to get rid of some walls and shit.
This post has been edited by Vaiz: 12 March 2011 - 04:00 PM

#17 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 07:15 PM

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Regardin' that mipmap bit I posted earlier, maybe it's not so universal after all -- the lens-flare texture archive causes the game to crash if modified like that, despite it being virtually identical, format-wise, to the common effects one. Also forgot to mention that G-TXD needs to be closed and re-opened in order for Mipmaps to be applicable. v.png

#18 User is offline DustArma 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:02 PM

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Heroes had problems with mipmapping? I just launched the PC version and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, at least nothing like SADX without the mipmap pack.


*EDIT* Water looks kind of... weird now that I see it *EDIT*
This post has been edited by DustArma: 12 March 2011 - 08:11 PM

#19 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 08:17 PM

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It's not that Heroes itself has any problems with mipmapping, no. The problem arises when trying to edit level textures in the game. With the methods I had at hand previously, I could either only edit the base textures (which left the mipmaps exactly the same way as they were before, meaning you can only see the changes when the camera is up close) or by creating an entirely new archive without any mipmaps at all (which just looks weird on most stuff from a distance).

#20 User is offline BlazeHedgehog 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:23 PM

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QUOTE (Vaiz @ Mar 12 2011, 04:59 PM)
QUOTE (DustArma @ Mar 12 2011, 12:47 PM)
I guess the levels would require some minor edits, to make up for the lack of Fly/Power formations and blue tornado.


Easy, for blue tornado and fly; just stick in some light dash ring trails, or some enemies in a homing attack chain. Better yet, I'd love to actually play as tails or knuckles in these levels.

For power formation, yeah, I guess you'd have to get rid of some walls and shit.


Considering I doubt the layouts keep enemy/item positions they'd probably need minor edits anyway, so stuff like that would just be part of the porting process.

#21 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 12 March 2011 - 10:41 PM

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At this point I can semi-safely say that I got a bit too carried away with the mipmap stuff -- after trying edits to the common-objects-file, it's becoming more apparent that it isn't as relatively easy as I initially described. Disregarding the fact that G-TXD adds transparencies at seemingly random to a few files that neither need nor should have transparency (and it does so without an alpha-channel, to boot psyduck.png ), adding mipmaps to custom texture packs generally seems to make the game crash anyway. Why it didn't crash with the common effects textures is beyond me, though.

EDIT: Hm, upon closer inspection, there's three major differences between the Common effects and common objects archives :
The effects one is full of textures with alphas.
According to ViceTXD, in the effects one's header, Flags 2 and 8 are on for every texture -- whereas in the objects one, it only lists flag 2 (and flag 1 for files with alphas).
And third, for the Alpha check (true/false), it lists them all else false in the Effects archive, despite there being Alphas present -- additionally, a very long number is listed after it as opposed to a 0 or a 1. (the number is randomly 861615636 or 827611204 on the files -- I cannot decipher a pattern to the placement of those numbers) I have no explanation for that last change but somehow, it makes the game read the file perfectly fine. Gonna try to recreate my steps more accurately, I supposeā€¦

'NOTHER EDIT:
FINALLY figured out where I went wrong. All this time I was assuming Vice City's was the format to go with, since just about every software I used identified the game's files as being Vice City Format. Saving the TXD with mipmaps in G-TXD in San Andreas format, however, that did the trick and apparently, that's what I musta been doin' with the effects textures as well. Finally this whole thing is making sense. Sorta.

The only problem that remains is that G-TXD (at least for me) imports some files with transparency without giving me an alpha-channel to work with -- as if there was a bunch of colors that are inherently transparent. That causes stuff to be transluscent of course, and when not intended, that looks shitty in games -- case in point.
I have the theory that saving this in Vice City Format first without mipmaps allows for such faulty textures to be replaced with their real counterparts in Vice TXD -- then, it should still be possible to create Mipmaps and make the whole thing an SA file usable by Heroes. Gonna test that tomorrow, 'tis 5 am and I wanna sleep.
This post has been edited by Herm the Germ: 12 March 2011 - 11:16 PM

#22 User is offline Azu 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 06:26 AM

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I'd love to see a level editor for this. Also, if the DFF format is the same for GTA, would KAM Max Scripts work?

#23 User is offline ultima espio 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:59 AM

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QUOTE (Azu @ Mar 13 2011, 11:26 AM)
I'd love to see a level editor for this. Also, if the DFF format is the same for GTA, would KAM Max Scripts work?


We've been there like a million times, it only partially works. If you use the tool RwAnalyse you can convert the Sonic Heroes models into GTA ones and import them, but it doesn't keep the bone names, nor does it rig them.

#24 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 06:36 PM

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Sorry for derailing the point again, but maybe someone can explain this to me while we're sorta on the subject of Seaside Hill -- I made a shitty looking texture pack for trial and error purposes (after finally having figured out it was GIMP's primary setting for saving bitmaps that caused the transparency problems v.png Need to save them as 24 bit R8 G8 B8 ). Essentially, at seemingly random, the game makes some textures look like they're stretched from the first line/column on each edge -- and then those same textures look perfectly normal on the exact same wall at a different camera angle.

Example of textures lookin' fine.
In the same room, the floor looks stretched from the edges of the texture, as described.

#25 User is offline Mather1 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 06:58 PM

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I'mma gonna check this out. Uhh, does this editor view SA:DX levels? 'Cause that's the only PC Sonic game I have.

#26 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 07:20 PM

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Far as I am aware, SA:DX doesn't run on any version of the Renderware engine, so, no.

#27 User is offline Dude 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 08:06 PM

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QUOTE (Mather1 @ Mar 13 2011, 07:58 PM)
I'mma gonna check this out. Uhh, does this editor view SA:DX levels? 'Cause that's the only PC Sonic game I have.


No, you can use SADXLVL for that.

#28 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 13 March 2011 - 10:19 PM

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And I finally fuckin' did it, the mipmapping thing -- for real, this time. The textures themselves are shittily placed here, but mip mapping finally works. Not sure if any interest ever was there on here, but I'll write up a guide on it tomorrow.
This post has been edited by Herm the Germ: 13 March 2011 - 10:20 PM

#29 User is offline Mather1 

Posted 14 March 2011 - 01:48 PM

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QUOTE (Dude @ Mar 13 2011, 09:06 PM)
QUOTE (Mather1 @ Mar 13 2011, 07:58 PM)
I'mma gonna check this out. Uhh, does this editor view SA:DX levels? 'Cause that's the only PC Sonic game I have.


No, you can use SADXLVL for that.

Ah, thanks. smile.png

#30 User is offline Megane 

Posted 23 March 2011 - 03:00 PM

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This is probably a shitpost, but I have to wonder: If porting Sonic Heroes levels to SA:DX is possible, could you do the opposite?

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