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Sonic Classic Heroes Rise of the Chaotix (sorry, Mighty) - v0.10.008a out

#1021 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:23 AM

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Why not use the Death Egg theme from S2?, is more consistent with "flow of the plot" (or something like that) and the music could use more "spotlight" :)

#1022 User is offline Felik 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 08:34 AM

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I always thoulght that some time passed between S1 and S2. This way it feels like Eggman had DE and FF all along.

#1023 User is offline dsrb 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:20 AM

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That's probably how the individual games were written! But now they're merged, so it's irrelevant. This can do whatever it wants with canon because it's a hack, never mind because it concatenates the two games.

#1024 User is offline flamewing 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 10:06 AM

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View PostICEknight, on 11 March 2012 - 07:12 AM, said:

I'd make the Death Egg raise from the ground instead of coming with the Wing Fortress, though.

I initially thought of making the Death Egg using bluish tones and having it behind the clouds to emphasize the notion that it is in space. The main issue is that putting it behind the clouds (or the mountains, for that matter) will require making the background and foreground all high priority or the Death Egg would appear in front of them (I did it with portions of the foreground trees so the Death Egg/Wing Fortress/Eggman are all behind them). This would basically require duplicating the Green Hill mappings.

View PostMastaSys, on 11 March 2012 - 08:23 AM, said:

Why not use the Death Egg theme from S2?, is more consistent with "flow of the plot" (or something like that) and the music could use more "spotlight" :)

The problem is that the S2 DEZ song does not fit the cutscene at all -- to be frank, I don't think it even fits DEZ at all...

I had the idea for the cutscene based on the song -- the initial ominous portion with Eggman escaping yet again, then the great sense of urgency from the Death Egg and Wing Fortress coming in. In the first version, I was thinking of only using the Death Egg; but then I realized that the Wing Fortress is just as important in S2.

#1025 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 02:52 PM

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Looking nice, my only possible suggestion is maybe have the Death Egg move a little slower, since it's a hulking space fortress it looks a little odd floating quickly side by side with Wing Fortress (it could maybe start off at a earlier point so it wouldn't drag it on too much, it does seem to take a while for them to appear so the method might work).

Hmm, if they don't like the S3 boss music, maybe the S2 final boss instead, or even Wing Fortress, even if that is not sinster or frantic at all.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 11 March 2012 - 02:54 PM

#1026 User is offline dsrb 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:13 PM

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I love S3's final-boss music; it's just a bit strange to have it appear in a non-S3 game, at least if it's just that one time. The S2 final boss might work. But Wing Fortress? wat

Would it be totally crap to have no music? It worked pretty well for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. This way, no themes are recycled, and it avoids the gruelling decision-making process. :v:

#1027 User is offline Spanner 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:16 PM

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View PostE-122-Psi, on 11 March 2012 - 02:52 PM, said:

Looking nice, my only possible suggestion is maybe have the Death Egg move a little slower, since it's a hulking space fortress it looks a little odd floating quickly side by side with Wing Fortress (it could maybe start off at a earlier point so it wouldn't drag it on too much, it does seem to take a while for them to appear so the method might work).

Hmm, if they don't like the S3 boss music, maybe the S2 final boss instead, or even Wing Fortress, even if that is not sinster or frantic at all.

Yeah, the Sonic 2 final boss music would fit for this cut scene. The Sonic 3K music just seems out of place.

As for the Death Egg, perhaps it could slowly move with the Wing Fortress, but ascend at the same time? Or would this just cause the same GHZ issue you talked about?

#1028 User is offline flamewing 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:40 PM

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View PostSOTI, on 11 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Yeah, the Sonic 2 final boss music would fit for this cut scene.

No, it doesn't; I tried.

View PostSOTI, on 11 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

As for the Death Egg, perhaps it could slowly move with the Wing Fortress, but ascend at the same time? Or would this just cause the same GHZ issue you talked about?

It probably would, yeah; but I will try.

#1029 User is online RGamer2009 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 04:51 PM

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View Postflamewing, on 11 March 2012 - 04:40 PM, said:

View PostSOTI, on 11 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

Yeah, the Sonic 2 final boss music would fit for this cut scene.

No, it doesn't; I tried.

View PostSOTI, on 11 March 2012 - 04:16 PM, said:

As for the Death Egg, perhaps it could slowly move with the Wing Fortress, but ascend at the same time? Or would this just cause the same GHZ issue you talked about?

It probably would, yeah; but I will try.

Have you tried the Sonic 1 Final Boss music? That would definitely fit the Sonic 1 and 2 aspect, and it seems it would fit better than Sonic 2's.

#1030 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:05 PM

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View PostRGamer2009, on 11 March 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Have you tried the Sonic 1 Final Boss music? That would definitely fit the Sonic 1 and 2 aspect, and it seems it would fit better than Sonic 2's.
Well, I think introducing Sonic 2 with Sonic 2 music makes sense, at least in my head.

But yeah flamewing, it's your work, use whatever you feel it's right.
This post has been edited by MastaSys: 11 March 2012 - 05:05 PM

#1031 User is offline MathUser 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:13 PM

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I gotta say the new stuff added to the last released version adds alot of replay value. It's fun using Tails flight and Sonics standing run. Also fun playing with the elemental shields with Sonic.

As for the end of sonic 1 cutscene I like what you use in the video. Stick with that even if it's from a later game.

#1032 User is offline flamewing 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:25 PM

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View Postdsrb, on 11 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Would it be totally crap to have no music? It worked pretty well for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. This way, no themes are recycled, and it avoids the gruelling decision-making process.

Having it with no music doesn't work at is worse in this case because there are no other sound effects; S3&K only got away with no music when there were explosions or similar, or for very short cutscenes -- or in cases where you had control.

View PostRGamer2009, on 11 March 2012 - 04:51 PM, said:

Have you tried the Sonic 1 Final Boss music? That would definitely fit the Sonic 1 and 2 aspect, and it seems it would fit better than Sonic 2's.

Also doesn't fit; the main issue here is that the entire cutscene is designed with the music in mind: changing the music kills the arrangement. For FZ song, for example, there is no good point in which to bring in the Death Egg and Wing Fortress on-screen; and since it starts on a high note, even Eggman coming in sounds strange.

Any replacement song needs to have an ominous start for Eggman coming in, and a dramatic rise in tension for the ships; no other songs from the originals fit as well as the one I used.

And if the only reason for using another song is for it being "out of place" -- this is a terrible argument. I mean: this is a hack that has Tails and Knuckles in Sonic 1 and Sonic 2 levels, using S3&K sprites, moves and shields, super and hyper transformations, and more characters/teams in the queue. But in any case, there is another S3&K song which will be making an appearance, but I am not saying where or how -- it is a surprise (although 2 or 3 people know something about it, and may be able to guess -- if they know I am talking about them). Suffice to say, people will be in awe for several reasons.

#1033 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:45 PM

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View Postflamewing, on 11 March 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

View Postdsrb, on 11 March 2012 - 04:13 PM, said:

Would it be totally crap to have no music? It worked pretty well for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. This way, no themes are recycled, and it avoids the gruelling decision-making process.

Having it with no music doesn't work at is worse in this case because there are no other sound effects; S3&K only got away with no music when there were explosions or similar, or for very short cutscenes -- or in cases where you had control.

Which reminds me, shouldn't Eggman's ship be half exploding? That would add some noise to the scene.

Also, if you make the Wing Fortress look closer to the "camera", you could also play the propeller sound from Sonic 2 (albeit not as loud).


Anyway, I understand the scene is intended to be synchronized to the music, but I feel the Wing Fortress and Death Egg take a bit too much to appear.

#1034 User is offline Felik 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:50 PM

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Why can't you make death egg rise from behind of the green hill? As much as I know Genesis hardware allows you to have 2 layers of background - one behind another.

Edit: Oh wait that would be 3 layers...
This post has been edited by Felik: 11 March 2012 - 05:51 PM

#1035 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 05:51 PM

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Or... He could put a sprite that looks like the further mountains overlapping it.

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