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Sonic 4.

#241 User is offline Limey Otoko 

Posted 23 February 2011 - 10:01 AM

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QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 22 2011, 07:41 PM)
QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 22 2011, 02:37 PM)
What about replacing his model?


Making model importers is one of the most complicated things to do. I don't think anyone will ever care enough to make one for the format that Riders, 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic 4 all use.

Edit: Yes Chimpo, yes I can.


But if they use the same file-type, theoretically if someone fixed the animations we could use the superior (at least to the rest of those options) Secret Rings model yeah?

#242 User is offline Polygon Jim 

Posted 23 February 2011 - 04:02 PM

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QUOTE (Limey Otoko @ Feb 23 2011, 10:01 AM)
QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 22 2011, 07:41 PM)
QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 22 2011, 02:37 PM)
What about replacing his model?


Making model importers is one of the most complicated things to do. I don't think anyone will ever care enough to make one for the format that Riders, 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic 4 all use.

Edit: Yes Chimpo, yes I can.


But if they use the same file-type, theoretically if someone fixed the animations we could use the superior (at least to the rest of those options) Secret Rings model yeah?




The Secret Rings model is much worse. Everyone goes on about how they have a massive hardon for the Unleashed model, but now that the texture is bad the Secret Rings model is superior? And it's not an identical format, Sega has been using the format from early 2005 from what I can find, and they keep updating it each game with minor changes.

For the Wii version anyway, they didn't change the format between Secret Rings/Black Knight/Sonic 4. Though I wasn't able to import a new model over Sonic when I tried, it would crash because it's missing important things, like all the morph targets for Sonic's hands, and the model for the blur around his feet when he runs. On the other hand I can import models from Secret Rings to S4 if the model I'm replacing has no animations. The scale in Secret Rings/Black Knight seems to be x10 smaller though so it's not very practical anyway.



#243 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 23 February 2011 - 10:49 PM

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QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 23 2011, 01:02 PM)
QUOTE (Limey Otoko @ Feb 23 2011, 10:01 AM)
QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 22 2011, 07:41 PM)
QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 22 2011, 02:37 PM)
What about replacing his model?


Making model importers is one of the most complicated things to do. I don't think anyone will ever care enough to make one for the format that Riders, 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic 4 all use.

Edit: Yes Chimpo, yes I can.


But if they use the same file-type, theoretically if someone fixed the animations we could use the superior (at least to the rest of those options) Secret Rings model yeah?




The Secret Rings model is much worse. Everyone goes on about how they have a massive hardon for the Unleashed model, but now that the texture is bad the Secret Rings model is superior? And it's not an identical format, Sega has been using the format from early 2005 from what I can find, and they keep updating it each game with minor changes.

For the Wii version anyway, they didn't change the format between Secret Rings/Black Knight/Sonic 4. Though I wasn't able to import a new model over Sonic when I tried, it would crash because it's missing important things, like all the morph targets for Sonic's hands, and the model for the blur around his feet when he runs. On the other hand I can import models from Secret Rings to S4 if the model I'm replacing has no animations. The scale in Secret Rings/Black Knight seems to be x10 smaller though so it's not very practical anyway.

Personally I think it's more the animations that make the Unleashed model in this game look like crap, not the model itself (textures ruin it to some extent but not totally) Like I don't understand why they didn't just use the jumping blur from Colors and Unleashed for when Sonic jumps instead of that crappy version they have when rolling and the no version they have when Sonic jumps.

#244 User is offline Sonica 

Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:08 PM

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So is there a way of making the jumping animation faster depending on Sonic's speed?

#245 User is offline Aerosol 

Posted 24 February 2011 - 01:57 PM

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I'd prefer an animation swap actually. Just change the jumping animation to the rolling animation.

#246 User is offline Naean 

Posted 25 February 2011 - 03:19 PM

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QUOTE (AerosolSP @ Feb 24 2011, 06:57 PM)
I'd prefer an animation swap actually. Just change the jumping animation to the rolling animation.

This.

The Sonic 4 rolling graphics look far better and more clean cut than the jumping graphics. Plus, Sonic actually has different rolling animation speeds depending on how fast he rolls, unlike his jumping. Maybe that could somehow be copied to Sonic's jump graphics....

#247 User is offline total 

Posted 26 February 2011 - 10:53 AM

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QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 23 2011, 03:41 AM)
Making model importers is one of the most complicated things to do. I don't think anyone will ever care enough to make one for the format that Riders, 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic 4 all use.

Why are you so sure about that? And if you can't make one, then why not put format specs to public?

#248 User is offline Polygon Jim 

Posted 26 February 2011 - 12:22 PM

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QUOTE (total @ Feb 26 2011, 10:53 AM)
QUOTE (Polygon Jim @ Feb 23 2011, 03:41 AM)
Making model importers is one of the most complicated things to do. I don't think anyone will ever care enough to make one for the format that Riders, 06, Secret Rings, Black Knight, and Sonic 4 all use.

Why are you so sure about that? And if you can't make one, then why not put format specs to public?


Figuring out every odd variable is kind of hard without the proper specsheets for more advanced formats. I'm not going to post a specsheet because I didn't crack the format myself, others did and I don't have the right to post it without permission. If you want to make an importer for the format go right ahead, but no one ever seems to make model imports for games, it's a very rare thing because it takes quite a bit of effort to fully reverse engineer the formats.

I was actually going to ask you if you'd be interested in making an importer since you seem skilled at that kind of thing judging by your previous works, but you had PM's off so I didn't.

#249 User is offline total 

Posted 26 February 2011 - 01:14 PM

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I am interested, but I was not going to make importer (I make all necessary edits by hands for the most time, so there is no need in it).

And for those who interested there is some (incomplete) info available on format I used to analyze xno. I even had some results when I rewrote it in cpp, but I gave up with uvs at that time (about a year ago)...


PS: PMs are enabled now.
This post has been edited by total: 26 February 2011 - 01:16 PM

#250 User is offline 1stKirbyever 

Posted 27 February 2011 - 12:35 AM

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Thanks for the info, Jim! This will help a lot! Also, to help out I've already figured out how .RG, .EV, and .DC files work, I'll make another post once I go through every value. (I'm around 4F.) But seriously, thanks Jim! smile.png
This post has been edited by 1stKirbyever: 27 February 2011 - 12:36 AM

#251 User is offline Cruizer 

Posted 28 February 2011 - 05:36 AM

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derp


Splash Hill Boss Ring Map


My Rush Ring Mapping script is now modified for Sonic 4. I'll have a full ring map directory for you guys when Kirby (above me) gives me the .rg files. Just to note, these files are actually off by 8 pixels in both directions. When syncing them with any maps you guys make, make sure to move the layer for each ring image up and left 8 pixels each. Enjoy for now~


EDIT: All done. They're stored here. Interesting note about the Special Stages (z5*), the maps are square in the size of 256*12 in both directions, however the stage themselves hardly take up half the space. It's very strange.
This post has been edited by Cruizer: 02 March 2011 - 08:55 AM

#252 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 22 January 2012 - 02:56 PM

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Big bump in light of the PC release. If you have the iPhone version (or any of the prerelease versions) on your computer you can replace the LLZ2 and LLZ collision files to partially restore the minecart in the same way Jimmy did in the first post.
Posted Image

Doing the same with CSZ2 crashes the game at a certain point however, presumably due to differences in objects. Can't really do much more though without a way to repack .amb files.

#253 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 22 January 2012 - 06:44 PM

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Just out of curiosity, are you guys using the Partnernet leak for restoring the minecart level, or the final Japanese version?

#254 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 22 January 2012 - 07:03 PM

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View PostICEknight, on 22 January 2012 - 06:44 PM, said:

Just out of curiosity, are you guys using the Partnernet leak for restoring the minecart level, or the final Japanese version?

iPhone version. What do you mean by "final Japanese version"? It's the same as any other, isn't it? I just thought the pre-delay Wii version was mistakenly put on WiiWare for download before being replaced by the final version.

#255 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 22 January 2012 - 07:36 PM

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I didn't know it was replaced, perhaps somebody could check just in case it can be useful for this?

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