[FeliciaVal]

oh thank you very much for linking me the pics, NeonZephyr. Her art reminds me of the artist CatBeeCache on DA.
And wtf at the Ben Hurst issue...I guess this guy is never gonna learn...

[NeonZephyr]

Yeah, the Ben Hurst back-stab was the first time I realized that Ken was a dick. Years ago, now. And he just keeps proving it time and again...

Speaking of which, I've been following this whole drama in a lot of places, and I found this little gem in one of them:

"So, did Ken Penders ask Ben Hurst and Len Janson for their permission or insight in, say, deciding Rotor was gay? Or trying to kill Sally, or roboticizing and "killing off" Lupe (and making her married with kids, and Hispanic)? Did he care that Karl Bollers had written Mina as deciding against joining the Freedom Fighters when he kept writing her as part of the team? Never mind all the crazy stuff done to the SEGA cast. How does that fall under "respecting the creators' rights?""

Oh, Penders. You and your hypocrisy know no bounds, do you? I mean, the wolves were Native American based in the show. Not Mexican or Spanish or some bastardization of the two.

And don't even get me started on how much they screwed up Max's personality in the comics (though, admittedly, that was more than just Penders). Kind, respectable king who made a poor choice in an ally? Or a bloodline and destiny obsessed tyrant who thinks that his people are moronic and keeps trusting the wrong people despite constant warnings? But, like I said, that's a combination of a lot of writers' choices.

(I should say that I had nothing AGAINST the concept of Rotor being gay. I just thought that the execution was extremely poor and done solely for attention.)

This post has been edited by NeonZephyr: 10 February 2012 - 07:30 AM

[FeliciaVal]

wait, WHAT?! when did they mention that Rotor was gay?? I don't even remember... D: but alas, maybe I'm late to the party again since I've been following the comic about a couple of years ago so I might have skipped important information...
I was pretty much against the comics untill someone on DA started posted art about it and got me interested, but yeah, I do agree there are things that could have been done better...

[Tylinos]

NeonZephyr, on 09 February 2012 - 02:55 PM, said:

http://drfinitevusoo...ged/Ken+Penders

I noticed something reading the Ken quotes in this person's posts that I probably wouldn't have otherwise:

Ken Penders, about a month ago or something said:

Whether they'll be able to continue using anything created prior to Ian's run will also be resolved at my trial.

Well, that's quite fair of you, Ken, saying that it's not yet determined if it's okay or not for them to be using your--

Ken Penders, a few days ago said:

Absent a contract which would include me receiving some form of royalty payment, neither Sega, Archie or the writers have the right to make use of my characters, concepts or stories even in new works. For Ian to announce he's going to feature the "Anti-Brotherhood" shows he doesn't respect creator rights either, even though neither he, Archie or Sega has the right to use these characters.

...Oh. I see you've already changed your mind on that.

FeliciaVal, on 09 February 2012 - 04:26 PM, said:

wait, WHAT?! when did they mention that Rotor was gay?? I don't even remember... D: but alas, maybe I'm late to the party again since I've been following the comic about a couple of years ago so I might have skipped important information...

Ken claimed it years after leaving the comics. It was never actually stated in-story, so it's pretty much not considered canon by anyone.




EDIT:

NeonZephyr, on 09 February 2012 - 03:56 PM, said:

Speaking of which, I've been following this whole drama in a lot of places, and I found this little gem in one of them:

"So, did Ken Penders ask Ben Hurst and Len Janson for their permission or insight in, say, deciding Rotor was gay? Or trying to kill Sally, or roboticizing and "killing off" Lupe (and making her married with kids, and Hispanic)? Did he care that Karl Bollers had written Mina as deciding against joining the Freedom Fighters when he kept writing her as part of the team? Never mind all the crazy stuff done to the SEGA cast. How does that fall under "respecting the creators' rights?""

Oh wow. I hadn't even considered any of that. I hope this person doesn't mind, but I posted their quote on Ken's forum, because that's just too good to not mention.

This post has been edited by Tylinos: 09 February 2012 - 04:49 PM

[NeonZephyr]

@FeliciaVal: Try the Mobius Encyclopedia to brush up any lore you've missed. It's not complete, or anything, but it'll give you some background info while we're waiting for Who's Who. I only started subscribing shortly after Ian took up writing, myself (my public library used to get them, so I'd read them there until then. I believe that was in the 70's or 80's up to 160ish).

@ Tylinos: Eh, Penders hasn't exactly been consistent in anything this entire time. It doesn't even surprise me anymore. I've actually started to find it quite funny. And infuriating. It's a strange combination.

Which shows how insane and drawn-out this has gotten.

EDIT: @Tylinos again: It was an anon at plus4chan, honestly. I don't see why they would.

This post has been edited by NeonZephyr: 09 February 2012 - 04:58 PM

[FeliciaVal]

just imagine that Penders wins the trial and Archie is not allowed to use his characters and stories anymore...
Will it mean that the comics will have to start over? Or will Archie have to pay Penders a considerable amount of money for using his stuff?
I'm a bit confused there...

EDIT: @NeonZephyr: yup, that's pretty much what I do nowadays xD scrub the Mobius Encyclopedia from time to time especially for references when I need to draw the characters. Thx for the heads up thought

This post has been edited by FeliciaVal: 09 February 2012 - 05:03 PM

[Tylinos]

FeliciaVal, on 09 February 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

just imagine that Penders wins the trial and Archie is not allowed to use his characters and stories anymore...
Will it mean that the comics will have to start over? Or will Archie have to pay Penders a considerable amount of money for using his stuff?
I'm a bit confused there...

If he wins, they'll have the choice of whether or not to pay him to continue to use his characters. If they chose not to, the comic would either die, get a reboot, or just see a bunch of characters suddenly vanish.

[SteelBrush]

I'm not a reader of Archie, although seriously considering it, I think it be hilarious if Ian killed them off in the most humiliating way possible, followed by indifference from the remaining cast.

[FeliciaVal]

Tylinos, on 09 February 2012 - 05:02 PM, said:

FeliciaVal, on 09 February 2012 - 05:01 PM, said:

just imagine that Penders wins the trial and Archie is not allowed to use his characters and stories anymore...
Will it mean that the comics will have to start over? Or will Archie have to pay Penders a considerable amount of money for using his stuff?
I'm a bit confused there...

If he wins, they'll have the choice of whether or not to pay him to continue to use his characters. If they chose not to, the comic would either die, get a reboot, or just see a bunch of characters suddenly vanish.

thanks for the information.
I don't know why, call me skeptical if you want, but part of me wants me to Penders to win. I'd like to see what Archie does if he does. But on the other side, if he doesn't win, well...justice got served I guess. He is still an idiot no matter what. Now I'm really curious on what's going to happen anyways.

EDIT: what Steelbrush said XD

This post has been edited by FeliciaVal: 09 February 2012 - 05:09 PM

[Tylinos]

The problem with the "Ian can just kill them if Archie loses" idea is that they'd still have to pay Penders to use them for long enough to kill them. And I highly doubt Penders would allow them to use them just to kill them off.

[FeliciaVal]

then a reboot would be the best solution it seems...
I can't really see Archie giving up on the Sonic comic after all this long time

[MastaSys]

FeliciaVal, on 09 February 2012 - 05:14 PM, said:

then a reboot would be the best solution it seems...
I can't really see Archie giving up on the Sonic comic after all this long time

I was very suprised how their Mega Man comic was very acurate to the games while bringing some new stuff to the table. (For example, it's seems that the next act will give more depth to Cossack before of what I asume being the Mega Man 4 arc.)
Let's be honest stuff like Kintobors and loads of Echidnas, Naugus etc.... etc... are annoying relics that hardly matered back then and now even less.
A reboot based on the games + SatAM's main characters for the sake of the ol' readers would help fresh up the comics for the readers and more flexible for marketing for Sega (let's be honest it's the only reason that the comic exists in the end.)
A bit like the last Genesis arc... but with actual plot and still have some original stories.

This post has been edited by MastaSys: 09 February 2012 - 06:02 PM

[Metal Man88]

The status quo is so heavily entrenched that it would appear futile for even a Penders victory to reset the canon.

They'd pull something like how they got rid of SATAM Robotnik and through the use of literary devices make it clear without mentioning the characters that those characters were gone.

Looking at this from a more realistic view, Penders' vengeance leads him to founder in the precedents around him and he neither can make his comic nor get any more money, outside of Archie settling it out of court (since that seems to make more sense).

[Tylinos]

Ken Penders said:

Ben Hurst is not a topic I take lightly, mainly due to the fact that no matter what I say about my relationship with him, there are more than a few Sonic fans ready to call me a liar or say I'm being disrespectful towards the man, especially now after his passing.

For the record, and this will be the only time I address this, Ben Hurst and I initially met up at the San Diego Comic-Con one time back during the 90's, around the time SONIC UNDERGROUND had finished production. It was a cordial meet & greet, nothing more. Later, we had a phone conversation, and Ben expressed interest in writing for the Sonic comic, complimenting me on how I had carried the torch (his words) when neither Sega or anyone else was really doing much with the character. As Archie was publishing the SONIC SUPER SPECIAL series at the time, I thought it would be a great idea for Ben to write where he would have taken the series. He suggested that if he did do the story, he'd want to take what he planned and fit it into the series' continuity. So I contacted Justin Gabrie, and told him about Ben's interest. When Ben found out what Archie paid per page for script was nowhere near what he was paid for the scripts he did for the Sonic animated series he worked on, he decided to pass. (Which was sad, because Art Mawhinney would have been assigned to illustrate that particular script.)

This led in turn to Ben and I discussing doing a Sonic animated project with a Hollywood studio. Since I didn't know anyone in Hollywood at the time, I thought it only right he take the reins to pitch the project. What I discovered was that Ben thought Sega would be willing to fund such a project. Even then, with my lack of any Hollywood experience, I knew that approach would be a non-starter, and I was never able to shake Ben's belief that Sega would be willing to pay us to do the project. Consequently, when I was approached by noted animation producer/director Larry Houston - who was responsible for guiding FOX-TV's X-MEN series during its first five seasons - about working on a Sonic project, this led to a misunderstanding with Ben.

Ben understandably wanted to be paid for whatever work he did, but the problem was he didn't seem to be aware how the animation industry was evolving at the time, which forced a number of writers and artists who once had steady work to either settle for much less or get out of the business altogether. I totally lacked the knowledge and experience at the time to actually get a full blown project off the ground, so I'm not sure even now there was anything I could have done back then to move anything forward with regards to the project.

So short answer: Ben said he was happy with what I was doing moving the series forward, but we could never get our act together regarding collaborating on any future project.

It's one of those things I'll always have regrets over.

EDIT:

Ben Hurst said:

Just for the record: Ken [Penders of Archie comics] has often said (paraphrasing here) that "Ben Hurst says the torch has been passed to me for Sonic the Hedgehog" - usually expressed in a way to make it appear that I passed the torch to him. Not true. I was just trying to be nice. What I said was that since the comic was ongoing and the animated series was over, the torch had been passed [by default] to him. I was just trying to prevent a flurry of inquiries from fans pitting his opinion against mine on how the Sonic Universe should be sculpted after SatAm ended. The way he has expressed it in the past seems to convey the impression that he has my approval of his work. He doesn't. I've not read a single comic.

Ken Penders said:

This is why I don't discuss Ben Hurst. I was not aware of that quote, only the abuse I took from several fans who asked me for my side of the story. No matter what I say, there will always be someone to counter anything I say on the subject. Since the man is dead, nothing I say will sound anything but self-serving, so give it a rest. There's nothing to be gained from this discussion.

Don't try playing the victim, Ken. People linked you that interview in the past. You have no excuse.

This post has been edited by Tylinos: 09 February 2012 - 07:24 PM

[NeonZephyr]

I absolutely love how he completely ignored the actual point of the question in that quote.

But, then, he always seems to ignore when we call him out on his hypocrisy. Or say that we're just silly normal people that don't understand.

Yeah, he took "abuse." Right. He can't even just say "it's not right to discuss this now" and leave it at that. He still has to twist it to make it look like he's in the right, all the time.


I also doubt that Hurst would turn it down solely because of money. Unlike Penders, Hurst showed that he loved the series for the series sake. Yeah, he had to eat, but he always seemed to emphasis that he just wanted to work on the story and with the characters again.

Maybe I'm a little biased. Maybe I'm a little bitter. But the fact that he utterly ignored the real question (or the point about his hypocrisy) just... is really irritating. Not really surprising, but all the same....