Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: Ken Penders came, he saw, and he stalled. And he won, eventually. Mayb - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

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Ken Penders came, he saw, and he stalled. And he won, eventually. Mayb Veni Vidi Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Etc. Vici

#256 User is offline Dr. Mecha 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 05:50 AM

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View PostMercury, on 03 December 2011 - 01:49 AM, said:

If he wants to write about the characters so much, he could get a "real" job to support himself and just write fanfiction... it seems like the best thing to do when one wants to use someone else's characters.



He goal is to make money off of the characters he made with the story he help developed. It would be nice he comes back to Archie and continue working there like they offer him to do, but he didn't take that offer.

#257 User is offline AuroraRedwinters 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 06:13 AM

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View PostDr. Mecha, on 03 December 2011 - 05:50 AM, said:

He goal is to make money off of the characters he made with the story he help developed. It would be nice he comes back to Archie and continue working there like they offer him to do, but he didn't take that offer.


Characters and stories that he created for a licensed character that he does not own the license for.

Personally I don't get it. It clearly states in every issue: "SEGA, Sonic the Hedgehog, and all related characters and indicia are either registered trademarks or trademarks of SEGA CORPORATION. Am I missing something? Even if Archie does not have a "Copyright" they have a licensing contract with SEGA to use their property for a specific purpose. Anything that is additionally created by whomever they contract/hire should become the intellectual property of the original party by default. The only way around that I would think would be if Ken had a stipulation in his contract with Archie that has SEGA's approval/signature that he owns the individual characters he created.

However, there is an interesting article over here about it with the likes of DC and Marvel specifically: http://www.comicbook...y/news/?a=41001 This part of it jumps out the most to me:

3. Work Made for Hire


The issue of authorship is mute in the comic book world today because of the work-made-for-hire doctrine. Congress gave a detailed definition of the work-made-for-hire doctrine in the 1976 Act:

A “work made for hire” is
(1) a work prepared by an employee within the scope of his or her employment; or
(2) a work specially ordered or commissioned for use as a contribution to a collective work, as a part of a motion picture or other audiovisual work, as a translation, as a supplementary work, as a compilation, as an instructional text, as a test, as answer material for a test, or as an atlas, if the parties expressly agree in written instrument signed by them that the work shall be considered a work made for hire. For the purpose of the foregoing sentence, a “supplementary work” is a work prepared for publication as secondary adjunct to a work by another author for the purpose of introducing, concluding, illustrating, explaining, revising, commenting, upon, or assisting in the use of the other work, such as forewords, afterwords, pictorial illustrations, maps, charts, tables, editorial notes, musical arrangements, answer material for tests, bibliographies, appendixes, and indexes, and an “instructional text” is a literary, pictorial or graphic work prepared for publication and with the purpose of use in systematic instructional activities. (FN 30)

With the work-for-hire doctrine there is no issue of who owns the copyright to a comic book character because once these individuals are under Marvels payroll all the intellectual property rights that are vested into a comic book, the heroes in them, and the heroes’ component parts are all owned by Marvel.


Take out Marvel and insert Archie, which in turn would go to SEGA, and it pretty much sums itself up. I would hope Archie would be smart enough to do such a thing.

#258 User is offline Tylinos 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 03:10 PM

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I think what Ken is trying to argue is that what he did doesn't count as work for hire because there was no specific contract.

#259 User is offline BountyHunter 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 04:37 PM

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Yeah, I'm totally not getting this either. I don't think anything is going to come of it.

#260 User is offline Adamis 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:29 PM

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On Ken's forum:

Quote

That design does not look like ANYTHING Naoto Oshima or Yuji Uekawa ever created. The body proportions, anatomical structure, line structure and fashion are NOTHING like anything Oshima-san or Uekawa-san ever drew. I have a Bachelor of Science in Game Art and Design and graduated top of my class. I know what I'm talking about.

Your rampant emotions are making you see what you want to see. That's all.


Ha ha ha ha ha ! Oh boy is this guy for real?

But then, there's a better post : http://www.kenpender...55&p=6087#p6087

#261 User is offline Nix 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:44 PM

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View PostAdamis, on 03 December 2011 - 07:29 PM, said:

On Ken's forum:

Quote

That design does not look like ANYTHING Naoto Oshima or Yuji Uekawa ever created. The body proportions, anatomical structure, line structure and fashion are NOTHING like anything Oshima-san or Uekawa-san ever drew. I have a Bachelor of Science in Game Art and Design and graduated top of my class. I know what I'm talking about.

Your rampant emotions are making you see what you want to see. That's all.


Ha ha ha ha ha ! Oh boy is this guy for real?

He's right you know. It doesn't look anything like something Naoto and Yuji would've created, because they wouldn't (or at least I hope they wouldn't) bastardize their own characters like that.

#262 User is offline GeneHF 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 07:55 PM

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Changing lines is not changing the character. If he really thinks this, he should just quit now and go live a life on fur affinity. As a professional, he's done. What a crackpot.

#263 User is offline Tylinos 

Posted 03 December 2011 - 10:38 PM

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To be fair, that wasn't Ken who said that. It was just one of his fans.


Edit to avoid double-posting:
It just occurred to me that the Lara-Su picture says she's copyright 1993-2011 (Was this just added? I don't remember it being there before), even though she didn't first appear until 2002. I'm sure he has a reason, but it still just feels weird. It might have something to do with Ken's first story in the comic appearing in early 1994, meaning it was probably written in 1993. Though that raises the question of why he'd group all of his copyrights in the Archie thing under his first year working there if he claims the work there wasn't work-for-hire, since if it wasn't there'd be no reason to group it together like that, as her creation would just be a random work rather than part of an employment since 1993.
This post has been edited by Tylinos: 05 December 2011 - 06:13 PM

#264 User is offline Tylinos 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 09:20 PM

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Okay, to try and avoid cluttering up the main Archie thread, I figured I should post this over here. First off, for those of you who weren't following that one, Penders recently showed off a redesigned Julie-Su which wasn't as bad as Lara-Su, but had him acting a bit more crazy than usual. A few days ago, he showed a redesigned Lien-Da who pretty much everyone hated completely.

But now for something new from his forum. First quote is a random poster. Second is Ken.

Mavrickdingo said:

I have a question: now that you have freedom to deal with your characters as you see fit, apparently, why do you still make them Echidnas? You'd save yourself so much grief if you emancipated this from anything Sonic related at all.

Ken Penders said:

Who says they're echidnas? Seriously, I'm the guy who created these characters in the first place, none of whom were inspired by, were based on, or have anything to do with Sega (or Archie for that matter).


Bold emphasis by me. Who the hell does he think he's fooling?
This post has been edited by Tylinos: 05 January 2012 - 09:24 PM

#265 User is offline Herm the Germ 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:08 PM

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View PostTylinos, on 05 January 2012 - 09:20 PM, said:

Ken Penders said:

none of whom were inspired by, were based on, or have anything to do with Sega (or Archie for that matter).


Posted Image

Seriously, what the hell, man. Every god damn Echidna that ever appeared in the comics, to my knowledge, was Knuckles with extra hair and clothes. Talk about delusional. Can't he, like, go back to write new DS9 comics or something isntead? =B

#266 User is offline Mike Arcade 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:51 PM

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Okay I'm getting confused over here, so is Penders even allowed to do this, or did Archie lose the rights to Julie-Su and any other character he came up with? Also while I don't mind the idea of Julie-Su having her own story and all the way Penders has acted for the past several months is just unprofessional, not to mention with such actions I'm sure he's lost a LOT of fans in the process because of this. I don't see why he couldn't work with Archie again, but after all this I'll be surprised if Penders will ever get hired by them or anyone ever again.

#267 User is offline Tylinos 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 10:58 PM

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Basically, Penders is doing this because he believes he will win the case and have nothing to worry about.

#268 User is offline SeanieB 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:08 PM

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This guy is one helluva piece of work.

Reminds me a lot of Chris-chan, but slightly more intelligent and somewhat capable of some semblance of function.

#269 User is offline Mike Arcade 

Posted 05 January 2012 - 11:12 PM

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View PostTylinos, on 05 January 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

Basically, Penders is doing this because he believes he will win the case and have nothing to worry about.

What? What the Penders thinking here!? I mean if he got permission from Archie to do this I'd be as cool as a penguin but really? So from HIS logic, everyone who made a character in a comic is his/her property. That is the biggest amount of bull I've ever heard, now if that said person got credit for making the character (example:Stan Lee created Spiderman, nuff said) that makes sence. But this? This is just stupid, the only thing I'd tell Ken is fix your profession relationship with Archie and make a public apology on your website because not only are you going up with one of the most well known comic book publishers of all time, but you're also going up against Sega, This is more one sided then racing a car on foot! There is no way in hell he's gonna win.

#270 User is offline Lanzer 

Posted 06 January 2012 - 12:10 AM

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Ah right theres a thread dedicated to this retard, I forgot.

Heres the full quote from him:

Ken Penders said:


Who says they're echidnas?

Seriously, I'm the guy who created these characters in the first place, none of whom were inspired by, were based on, or have anything to do with Sega (or Archie for that matter). Despite the uproar from what I see, there is a large contingent out there who loved those old stories and want to see what happens. Beyond that, there's a good chance the younger crowd will enjoy the stories, and because I'm taking the same approach that I did when writing the earlier series, that adults will enjoy the stories as well.

There was absolutely nothing in the video games or anywhere else to base a viable long-running series on utilizing the Knuckles character, as has been pointed out by many people over the years.

I suspect the uproar over Lien-Da is precisely because her design is so radically different from her previous incarnation compared to Julie-Su and Lara-Su, as well as the fact that people are taking what I'm doing seriously, if the coverage and my e-mail is any indication. The fact that people are willing to go to war over this on message boards is scaring a number of fans from engaging publicly in the conversation. I also never expected a united Sonic fandom behind me - or anywhere even a majority - simply because there is no such thing. The gamers were dismissive of our comics back then, as well as factions arguing whether Sonic UK or SegaSonic or Archie Sonic was better. This is something I've experienced nearly from the beginning and it's nothing new. Remember ENDGAME? It it weren't for the fact that sales took an unexpected leap upward, issue 50 was the swan song with Sonic and company going out in a blaze of glory. The uproar now is nothing compared to when I leaked it I was killing off Sally.


But one of pender's lackys said this:

Quote

It looks like there are a few people here that took Ken's tounge-in-cheek comment about his characters not being echidnas and totally blew it out of proportion. Him starting off the next sentence after said comment with "Seriously" shows it was a joke. Get a hold of yourselves, guys. Relax.


Hes either trolling what little fanbase he has left or hes off his rocker. you decide.
This post has been edited by Lanzer: 06 January 2012 - 12:10 AM

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