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Let's argue about models and designs Part one million

#31 User is offline Mr. Pictures 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 05:07 AM

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QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 16 2010, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 16 2010, 10:32 AM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 16 2010, 01:20 AM)
I think that its a good thing that they put the effort in to animate all of that. It shows that they do care.


Why are they putting so much work into such tiny details? I don't think that creates any entertainment value for anyone.


Hey, at least they put some effort into that. I mean sure these games haven't been great, but they would have been worse, if it hadn't been for their presentation.


That's where I see the problem. There's a lot of work put into a something like the threads in Sonic's gloves or his fur that it doesn't even matter. It doesn't make Sonic or the other characters look anymore fun either. I think a lot of it is covering up for the lack of entertainment in a game. Unfortunately, I don't think it does a very good job, because it can't replace my amusement for a good game, so in the end it's a wasted effort. I agree with you that presentation is very important, and that a game should look professional and be marketable, but I'm seeing a lot of it handled as if it's all about the surface and no real meat underneath.

Plus, I'm starting to think that Sonic Team might be beginning to realize that the more realistic Sonic is made, the stranger he looks, so they have to find some weird half way point.
This post has been edited by Mr. Pictures: 16 May 2010 - 05:13 AM

#32 User is offline W.A.C. 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 05:09 AM

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QUOTE (Azukara @ May 14 2010, 11:22 PM)
No, that's the sequel of Sonic 2006 2 whenever Sonic meets up with Shadow's timeline (again) in ShtH and messes it all up by killing him and taking his guns, thus causing another time paradox and even less happened than before. THIS is what Sonic 2006 2 is like.


omfg... That's one of the worst Sonic designs ever, and I've seen some pretty bad ones. x_x

QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 15 2010, 10:43 PM)
Classic looks better in 2D and the modern version looks WAY better in 3D.

I agree with this statement 100%.

QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 15 2010, 10:43 PM)
The Classic stylised design for the prodominantly 2D handhelds, and the modern Unleashed-style design for the bigger budget 3D games.
That way everybody's happy and kids would be none the wiser.

However, I disagree with this. For the sake of consistency, I'm glad they used the adventure models for the Advance and Rush games. However, I do wish they used classic Sonic for Sonic 4.
This post has been edited by W.A.C.: 16 May 2010 - 05:13 AM

#33 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 07:54 AM

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QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 16 2010, 11:07 AM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 16 2010, 04:45 AM)
QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 16 2010, 10:32 AM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 16 2010, 01:20 AM)
I think that its a good thing that they put the effort in to animate all of that. It shows that they do care.


Why are they putting so much work into such tiny details? I don't think that creates any entertainment value for anyone.


Hey, at least they put some effort into that. I mean sure these games haven't been great, but they would have been worse, if it hadn't been for their presentation.


That's where I see the problem. There's a lot of work put into a something like the threads in Sonic's gloves or his fur that it doesn't even matter. It doesn't make Sonic or the other characters look anymore fun either. I think a lot of it is covering up for the lack of entertainment in a game. Unfortunately, I don't think it does a very good job, because it can't replace my amusement for a good game, so in the end it's a wasted effort. I agree with you that presentation is very important, and that a game should look professional and be marketable, but I'm seeing a lot of it handled as if it's all about the surface and no real meat underneath.

Plus, I'm starting to think that Sonic Team might be beginning to realize that the more realistic Sonic is made, the stranger he looks, so they have to find some weird half way point.


This much I can agree with. Sonic games have never had "bad" graphics. Colourful and lively for the most part. I'd say 06 had decent graphics, not amazing but not bad.
I think in Unleashed, there was a fair amount of meat, it was just undercooked, if you pardon my analogy. They needed to spend some more time on it in order to iron out some of the retarded framerate problems.

But thats off-topic.

I have little to nothing else to add to my opinions on character design. I think the modern design looks better than the old one. Blasphemy? Fuck it, its my opinion.
This post has been edited by Scartillery: 16 May 2010 - 07:55 AM

#34 User is offline Azukara 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:35 AM

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I'm naturally more of a fan of classic Sonic than any other Sonic there is, but right behind (and I mean RIGHT behind) is the Unleashed Sonic. Both Sonics to me are truly very lively, and almost timeless designs that symbolize being fun for all ages; with their over-the-top cartoony expressions, that 'bad attitude, good guy' look, vibrant colors and charming designs. It never bothered me to see modern Sonic in Sonic 4, really. The reason why is because since I see Unleashed Sonic being so absolutely well done it doesn't bother me and I actually accept it over S3K's sprites.

Because really, S3K's sprites were pretty ugly IMO. colbert.png Sonic 1/CD/2B plz.

#35 User is offline Solid SOAP 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 08:42 AM

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I'd be bothered if they used the lifeless and disgusting look Sonic '06 character model, but I loved Sonic Unleashed and how well Sonic was portrayed in that game so I really can't complain.

#36 User is offline Mr. Mash 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:48 AM

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I love the classic design and there are a good few examples of 3D models of that design that show it can work pretty well.
However after Sonic heroes' pretty horrible looking model, the one in Unleashed looks awesome. Especially in the opening cut scene where he's dashing about the space ship, before that I was pretty sceptical about it, having only seen a few renders, but damn it was nicely animated! The newer render from Sonic 4 with the slightly trimmed spines is really cool as well, a good mix of cute and badass.

#37 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 09:54 AM

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QUOTE (Azukara @ May 16 2010, 01:55 AM)

Damn, that model looks awesome even if the quills look a bit longer than usual.

I don't think Travellers Tales made that, even if it was used for Sonic R's manual or wherever they put it. Just compare it to the other Sonic R model seen in the Title screen, and this one looks much more "alive". I'm even suspecting that was part of whatever Sonic Team was working on right before Adventure's redesign.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 16 May 2010 - 09:55 AM

#38 User is offline Azukara 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:34 AM

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To me it looks just like the one on the Sonic R boxart/titlescreen but in a different pose, and slightly more saturated colors. psyduck.png

#39 User is offline Iceguy 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:42 AM

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Now that you have mentioned it... it really does look like that. o-o

Or at least resembles, geko. I think the eyes are smaller.

#40 User is offline Clutch 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:43 AM

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Yeah, I really don't see a whole lot more "life" in that image that can't be attributed to artifacting.

#41 User is offline Azukara 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 10:45 AM

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Well, that's only because of it being ripped from a magazine, I think. That's the only place I really know of that has a screen of that render. If I can find it, I'll post it up.

Anyways, to state my thoughts: super-high poly Sonic the Fighters model por favor.

#42 User is offline Cyrus Parker 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 11:34 AM

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This topic has made me become a fan of Unleashed Sonic that much more. Classic Sonic looks goofy in 3-D.

#43 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 02:43 PM

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QUOTE (Azukara @ May 16 2010, 11:34 AM)
To me it looks just like the one on the Sonic R boxart/titlescreen but in a different pose, and slightly more saturated colors. psyduck.png

The muzzle looks much better, but perhaps it's just the perspective used.

But anyway, since this was only used in a magazine, it might be more possible that it wasn't made for Sonic R but for something else nobody outside SEGA of Japan was aware of.

#44 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:01 PM

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QUOTE (Mr. Pictures @ May 16 2010, 02:32 AM)
QUOTE (Scartillery @ May 16 2010, 01:20 AM)
I think that its a good thing that they put the effort in to animate all of that. It shows that they do care.


Why are they putting so much work into such tiny details? I don't think that creates any entertainment value for anyone.


Because that's what CG animators are hired to do.

Edit: What the hell, there's a third page?

#45 User is offline Solaris Paradox 

Posted 16 May 2010 - 03:13 PM

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It adds plenty of entertainment value for people with television resolutions capable of showing it. Enhances the immersion aspect, you know. And it makes the CG scenes that much more fun to watch a second time. A lot of the time, the first time I watch a cutscene, I'm just watching what goes on during the scene, but I like to watch them again later—either in the cutscene theater or during a second playthrough, and just take it all in. It's not that I completely ignore the detail the first time, it's just that it makes a second watch all the more interesting.

Major fan of VE studios, I am, by the way. Night of the Werehog was made of win, whatever you may think about the Werehog itself.

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