Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

Jump to content

Hey there, Guest!  (Log In · Register) Help
  • 459 Pages +
  • ◄ First
  • 241
  • 242
  • 243
  • 244
  • 245
  • Last ►
    Locked
    Locked Forum

The Sonic the Hedgehog 4 Megathread Latest Update: Main Site Updated (CSZ)

#3631 User is offline Blue Blood 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 01:39 PM

  • Posts: 3086
  • Joined: 15-January 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Wiki edits:6
QUOTE (Dude @ Jul 17 2010, 07:30 PM)
classic sega thinking: Our developers can't be doing anything wrong, its the fans who must be at fault.

I thought it was more like: Our developers do everything wrong, but fans will lap up their shit anyway.

That is seriously the impression that S4 gives off. It's so saddening that the game has been treated the way it has. Fun game, ridiculously far from what was promised (especially by name).

#3632 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 02:55 PM

  • Posts: 686
  • Joined: 19-February 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Wiki edits:3
QUOTE (Dude @ Jul 17 2010, 07:30 PM)
QUOTE (Deef @ Jul 17 2010, 02:03 PM)
Quite negative if you ask me, albeit admittedly realistic.

Since when do we support devs releasing something in pieces just in case it's s***.

So even though the point is practical, it doesn't make sense to support this reason without admitting low confidence in the devs (or the devs admitting in themselves). And if that is the case I'd rather they address whatever is causing the low confidence than actually encourage this defensive style of production.


classic sega thinking: Our developers can't be doing anything wrong, its the fans who must be at fault.


Well, I wouldn't say that now that they bothered to delay.
I honestly can't be bothered to here the reasons as to why they won't improve during the delay and between episodes, we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, yes this game isn't getting much attention from the Developers, but I'm glad about it.
You see, if Izuka and Sonic Team focused more on Sonic 4, then they would be less focused on Sonic Colours.

Now if you ask me, I'd rather have an excellent 3D game than an excellent 2D game.
We already know Sonic is good in 2D (even Rush and Rush Adv.), what we need to happen, is an excellent 3D Sonic game, to prove the nutjars, who believe a good 3D Sonic game is impossible, wrong.
If Sonic wants to be a serious flagship franchise/mascot, he needs to be good in 3D aswell as 2D.
If that means that Sonic 4 is not as good as it could have been, then so be it.

Even if thats the case, its still not a bad game. Its just "not as good as it could have been".

#3633 User is offline Solaris Paradox 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:30 PM

  • Posts: 2456
  • Joined: 08-March 10
  • Location:On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
  • Project:I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
  • Wiki edits:2
QUOTE (Deef @ Jul 17 2010, 02:03 PM)
Quite negative if you ask me, albeit admittedly realistic.

Since when do we support devs releasing something in pieces just in case it's s***.

So even though the point is practical, it doesn't make sense to support this reason without admitting low confidence in the devs (or the devs admitting in themselves). And if that is the case I'd rather they address whatever is causing the low confidence than actually encourage this defensive style of production.


"Positive" in the sense that there's a silver lining to every cloud, but the cloud's still there and it's raining piss on everyone's parade. Really, though, SEGA themselves have stated—many times—that fan feedback is one of the factors in making the game episodic. However bullshit that might be, it's also at least partly true. They get a negative reaction from Episode I, they're going to improve Episode II based on that reaction—if only so the sales will continue. It's the practical thing to do.

Besides, with Sonic's ever-dwindling reputation, even SEGA can't be stupid enough to think their fans will "lap shit up" forever, and that's more true of the fans they target with nostalgic stuff like Sonic 4, since they have a tendency to be older and thus, in theory, a fair bit less moronic.

In... theory, anyway. Sometimes it's hard to be sure.

#3634 User is offline Vinchenz 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 03:34 PM

  • ↑ & ↓ & ↻
  • Posts: 1375
  • Joined: 10-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Project:Research
I hate that everyone keeps assuming that SEGA as a whole is the problem here.

The problem here is SEGA of Japan and how they don't really care the Sonic series. Japan doesn't care about Sonic as much as America does, and SoJ pretty much only rushes out Sonic games because they know it'll sell like hotcakes in North America. All SEGA of America can do is bend over and take it.

This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?

It's too bad. SoJ are just heartless monsters who feed off the cash of our youngin's.
This post has been edited by Vinchenz: 17 July 2010 - 03:36 PM

#3635 User is offline Relick 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:19 PM

  • Posts: 197
  • Joined: 20-March 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:England
  • Project:C++/DX10 Engine (not sonic related)
  • Wiki edits:5
QUOTE (Vinchenz @ Jul 17 2010, 09:34 PM)
I hate that everyone keeps assuming that SEGA as a whole is the problem here.

The problem here is SEGA of Japan and how they don't really care the Sonic series. Japan doesn't care about Sonic as much as America does, and SoJ pretty much only rushes out Sonic games because they know it'll sell like hotcakes in North America. All SEGA of America can do is bend over and take it.

This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?

It's too bad. SoJ are just heartless monsters who feed off the cash of our youngin's.

This.

Although I'm slightly confused about this bit:
"(or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles)"
That's a contradiction I've never seen before.
This post has been edited by Relick: 17 July 2010 - 04:25 PM

#3636 User is offline Wing 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:28 PM

  • Posts: 20
  • Joined: 17-July 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Wiki edits:3
QUOTE (Vinchenz @ Jul 17 2010, 04:34 PM)
I hate that everyone keeps assuming that SEGA as a whole is the problem here.

The problem here is SEGA of Japan and how they don't really care the Sonic series. Japan doesn't care about Sonic as much as America does, and SoJ pretty much only rushes out Sonic games because they know it'll sell like hotcakes in North America. All SEGA of America can do is bend over and take it.

This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?

It's too bad. SoJ are just heartless monsters who feed off the cash of our youngin's.

Wasn't this done with Sonic Adventure 2? If I remember correctly, the treasure hunting and mech shooting were a lot more bearable in Sonic Adventure.
So long we keep getting games like Colors, I'll be satisfied.

#3637 User is offline Dude 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:32 PM

  • 3ds MAX Help Desk
  • Posts: 2878
  • Joined: 11-September 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Southbridge, MA
  • Project:Sonic Adventure Generations
  • Wiki edits:43
QUOTE (Vinchenz @ Jul 17 2010, 04:34 PM)
I hate that everyone keeps assuming that SEGA as a whole is the problem here.

The problem here is SEGA of Japan and how they don't really care the Sonic series. Japan doesn't care about Sonic as much as America does, and SoJ pretty much only rushes out Sonic games because they know it'll sell like hotcakes in North America. All SEGA of America can do is bend over and take it.

This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?

It's too bad. SoJ are just heartless monsters who feed off the cash of our youngin's.



DING DING

we have a winner! SOJ wants their cash ASAP, so they throw out cheap products at exorbitant prices so they can get an exponential return on the infinitely small investment and give it to the suits upstairs. Nobody at sega who matters gives a damn.

#3638 User is offline Solaris Paradox 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:41 PM

  • Posts: 2456
  • Joined: 08-March 10
  • Location:On my butt in front of the computer. Where else?
  • Project:I'm working on working up the willpower to work on learning how to make my own Sonic fangames. Not quite there yet.
  • Wiki edits:2
QUOTE (Dude @ Jul 17 2010, 05:32 PM)
DING DING

we have a winner! SOJ wants their cash ASAP, so they throw out cheap products at exorbitant prices so they can get an exponential return on the infinitely small investment and give it to the suits upstairs. Nobody at sega who matters gives a damn.


You'd think they'd shove the franchise off for the Western branches to handle if they don't give a damn, though. Bah.

Easy to see why Sonic 4 was blithely outsourced when you put it in that context, though.

#3639 User is offline Dr. Mecha 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:50 PM

  • Posts: 950
  • Joined: 24-February 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Dallas, TX
  • Project:3d Models
QUOTE (Vinchenz @ Jul 17 2010, 03:34 PM)
I hate that everyone keeps assuming that SEGA as a whole is the problem here.

The problem here is SEGA of Japan and how they don't really care the Sonic series. Japan doesn't care about Sonic as much as America does, and SoJ pretty much only rushes out Sonic games because they know it'll sell like hotcakes in North America. All SEGA of America can do is bend over and take it.

This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?

It's too bad. SoJ are just heartless monsters who feed off the cash of our youngin's.

You're Correct my good man. As far as I can remembered Sonic Unleashed (or Sonic World Adventure as it called there) sold poorly in Japan compared to the US. Japan actually hated the hedgehog now. So forming a branch in the US and have them handle the franchise is a better Idea.

#3640 User is offline Sparks 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 04:55 PM

  • Posts: 2500
  • Joined: 27-June 05
  • Gender:Male
  • Project:Gold's Curse
  • Wiki edits:21
QUOTE (Vinchenz @ Jul 17 2010, 01:34 PM)
This is why the Sonic series (or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles) should just be handed off to SoA (or move Sonic Team to San Fransisco) and be given complete creative control over it. Hey, doesn't that sound familiar...?
We got what was one of the best (if not the) Sonic games in the entire series? specialed.png

#3641 User is offline Vinchenz 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:09 PM

  • ↑ & ↓ & ↻
  • Posts: 1375
  • Joined: 10-January 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Canada
  • Project:Research
QUOTE (Relick @ Jul 17 2010, 05:19 PM)
Although I'm slightly confused about this bit:
"(or hell, just Sonic 4 since SoA now only develops downloadable titles)"
That's a contradiction I've never seen before.


Well, I'm just saying that the delayed Sonic 4: Ep 1 and the other episodes should at least be handled by SoA rather than Dimps because SoJ fired a tonne of people at SoA and reduced them to a downloadable-only developer anyway.

Although they could at least move Sonic Team to San Francisco. Just because SoA has been reduced to download-only doesn't mean a division within the company has to.

QUOTE (Sparks)
We got what was one of the best (if not the) Sonic games in the entire series? specialed.png


FUCK YEAH SONIC 3 & KNUCKLES
This post has been edited by Vinchenz: 17 July 2010 - 05:09 PM

#3642 User is offline 0r4ng3 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:10 PM

  • Posts: 1318
  • Joined: 08-December 08
  • Wiki edits:708
Giving SOA to Sonic right now would bring more problems then solve them. SOA right now, is nothing, and has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Hiring more people is out of the question, as if complete outliers would have a clear grasp of what the series is, or better, what the classic fans think the series should return to. Moving the team there would solve nothing either, as Sonic Team USA had what, two decent games, that are nothing of what Sonic 4 should be? The series coming to the west won't magically fix anything, programmers with a clue will. Sonic 2 and 3 & Knuckles were great because of the people behind it, not because they were made in US soil. This conversation sounds like every game reviewer that thinks 2D = good, 3D = bad for Sonic. One thing has nothing to do with other.
This post has been edited by 0r4ng3: 17 July 2010 - 05:14 PM

#3643 User is offline Phos 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:27 PM

  • Going for the high score on whatever that little bar is
  • Posts: 3318
  • Joined: 21-February 08
  • Gender:Male
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 02:55 PM)
Well, I wouldn't say that now that they bothered to delay.
I honestly can't be bothered to here the reasons as to why they won't improve during the delay and between episodes, we'll just have to wait and see.

Also, yes this game isn't getting much attention from the Developers, but I'm glad about it.
You see, if Izuka and Sonic Team focused more on Sonic 4, then they would be less focused on Sonic Colours.

They're not going to improve during the delay because they don't really know what they're doing. Post delay, it'll just be all the same problems just shifted around a bit.

Sonic Colors and Sonic 4 don't share many team members, it really doesn't matter how much they put into one game or another.
QUOTE
Even if thats the case, its still not a bad game. Its just "not as good as it could have been".

Everything I've seen of it makes it look like a bad game. It's ugly with enemy placement that ranges from poor to dire and relies too much on a small selection of set pieces. It sounds like I'm describing some kind of crappy NES game here.

#3644 User is offline Scartillery 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:32 PM

  • Posts: 686
  • Joined: 19-February 10
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:United Kingdom
  • Wiki edits:3
QUOTE (0r4ng3 @ Jul 17 2010, 11:10 PM)
Giving SOA to Sonic right now would bring more problems then solve them. SOA right now, is nothing, and has no power whatsoever to do anything about it. Hiring more people is out of the question, as if complete outliers would have a clear grasp of what the series is, or better, what the classic fans think the series should return to. Moving the team there would solve nothing either, as Sonic Team USA had what, two decent games, that are nothing of what Sonic 4 should be? The series coming to the west won't magically fix anything, programmers with a clue will. Sonic 2 and 3 & Knuckles were great because of the people behind it, not because they were made in US soil. This conversation sounds like every game reviewer that thinks 2D = good, 3D = bad for Sonic. One thing has nothing to do with other.


Yes. SoJ are money-minded. No questions there.
However, simply shoving Sonic 4 down to the US won't help. SoA was all but liquidated in favor of SEGA West/Europe.

Yuji Naka formed Sonic Team USA, partly to penetrate the western audience more, and partly because it gave him more freedom as a programmer and developer.
Yuji Naka then left a few years after Sonic Team USA was merged with Sonic Team Japan.
I assume this is because of lack of freedom. Naka himself said he left, because he was so high up the food chain, that he was no longer allowed a direct hand in the programming.

SoJ's lack of concern was a problem.
It is still a problem, but with the formation of SEGA West, things may change. I honestly hope SoJ just hand over the Hedgehog to the people who are, and give them a very large budget.
initially it won't produce such a high profit, because of scepticism from gamers and high production values, but eventually, after you've once again established that Sonic is once again amoung the Gods of platforming, you'll start printing money as fast as Nintendo. Not only because unknowing parents buy the game, but because gamers in general will buy the games because they will be worth their time.

However, Sonic 4 shouldn't receive such massive budgets nor attention.
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team". They can either do this by hiring new blood, either from Uni's or diverting staff from other divisions of Sonic Team. Or they could just get Prope to handle said games, seeing as SEGA owns a part of it (that way Naka can actually program, and he'll enjoy it more).

I still maintain 3D games deserve more attention, because Sonic needs to be good in 3D. He's already good in 2D, even his worst 2D games are better than some of the 3D ones and can't even be called "bad".

QUOTE
Everything I've seen of it makes it look like a bad game. It's ugly with enemy placement that ranges from poor to dire and relies too much on a small selection of set pieces. It sounds like I'm describing some kind of crappy NES game here.


No its bad to you (read: Online Communities). The badnik placements are not as good as Sonic 3 and Knuckles. Why is it, that if something isn't as good as S3K, it isn't good at all?
The aesthetics are debatable, a lot of people think it looks good. It doesn't look or sound like a "Crappy NES game" at all, that's just being hyperbollic.
A lot of others, professionals, gamers in general, it looks good. To a lot of people at E3, it was great to play.
Are these people stupid or ignorant? No. Not at all. They just haven't been playing the classics enough to appreciate some of its less obvious positives (badnik placements, level transitions), and they haven't looked into Sonic 4 enough to notice its less obvious flaws (Physics engine: you can't see it, but you can "feel" it, but they're rushing to the end too fast to notice or care).

Yes, its not as good as the classics, but it is not. I repeat NOT a bad game. Is it good enough to be Sonic 4? Maybe not, but it can stand in good stead as a Solid standalone title.
This post has been edited by Scartillery: 17 July 2010 - 05:43 PM

#3645 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 17 July 2010 - 05:36 PM

  • Posts: 8961
  • Joined: 11-January 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Spain
  • Wiki edits:18
QUOTE (Scartillery @ Jul 17 2010, 05:32 PM)
What SEGA need to do is form a "Retro Studios" Knock-off; something like "Classic Team".

That's what they think they've done with Dimps... with hilarious results.

  • 459 Pages +
  • ◄ First
  • 241
  • 242
  • 243
  • 244
  • 245
  • Last ►
    Locked
    Locked Forum

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users

  1. Google