[Polygon Jim]

Exactly how big do you suppose a game could get in terms of level size when you're stuck with a Wii's harddrive, with those graphics? Not that I'm saying Sonic 4 is all that it can be, I'm just saying, realistically. How many megabytes are we talking, here?

That the game is also a WiiWare title, is really the only thing dragging it down as far as that statement goes. I thought we settled that point ages ago—that the Wii's space limit was probably a factor in the whole "episodic" thing?

New Super Mario Brothers Wii could nearly fit as a WiiWare game. Your point is invalid.



Edit: Correction! The layout files are less than 10mb, and it has longer levels, and about 10 times as many.

This post has been edited by Polygon Jim: 17 July 2010 - 01:07 AM

[Solaris Paradox]

Exactly how big do you suppose a game could get in terms of level size when you're stuck with a Wii's harddrive, with those graphics? Not that I'm saying Sonic 4 is all that it can be, I'm just saying, realistically. How many megabytes are we talking, here?

That the game is also a WiiWare title, is really the only thing dragging it down as far as that statement goes. I thought we settled that point ages ago—that the Wii's space limit was probably a factor in the whole "episodic" thing?

New Super Mario Brothers Wii could nearly fit as a WiiWare game. Your point is invalid.

Ahem. I saaaaaay-ed, "WITH THOSE <---*referencing Chimpo's videos there, Jim, pay attention please* GRAPHICS."

[Polygon Jim]

Exactly how big do you suppose a game could get in terms of level size when you're stuck with a Wii's harddrive, with those graphics? Not that I'm saying Sonic 4 is all that it can be, I'm just saying, realistically. How many megabytes are we talking, here?

That the game is also a WiiWare title, is really the only thing dragging it down as far as that statement goes. I thought we settled that point ages ago—that the Wii's space limit was probably a factor in the whole "episodic" thing?

New Super Mario Brothers Wii could nearly fit as a WiiWare game. Your point is invalid.

Ahem. I saaaaaay-ed, "WITH THOSE <---*referencing Chimpo's videos there, Jim, pay attention please* GRAPHICS."

Uh, nothing changes. The levels can be the same length. JettRocket has more levels than Sonic 4.

This post has been edited by Polygon Jim: 17 July 2010 - 01:09 AM

[Solaris Paradox]

Uh, nothing changes. The levels can be the same length.

>_> Okay, honestly not following how that works, maybe I'm just not learned enough... um, how would a massive graphical update not alter file size?

[Polygon Jim]

Uh, nothing changes. The levels can be the same length.

>_> Okay, honestly not following how that works, maybe I'm just not learned enough... um, how would a massive graphical update not alter file size?

Because other company's actually understand how basic concepts work, and know how to use compression.

[Chimpo]

Exactly how big do you suppose a game could get in terms of level size when you're stuck with a Wii's harddrive, with those graphics? Not that I'm saying Sonic 4 is all that it can be, I'm just saying, realistically. How many megabytes are we talking, here?

First it was that it's a downloadable game. Then that it has to accommodate the Wii, and now you're on about file size regarding level sizes which Jim goes on to disprove. When are you going to draw the line here? This is utterly ridiculous. Every time we show something that goes against someone's assumptions, someone else decides to pull more out of their ass.

That the game is also a WiiWare title, is really the only thing dragging it down as far as that statement goes. I thought we settled that point ages ago—that the Wii's space limit was probably a factor in the whole "episodic" thing?

No it isn't. It's absolute horse shit they're selling you. They're splitting it up because they know you'll buy this shit in chunks.

[Solaris Paradox]

First it was that it's a downloadable game. Then that it has to accommodate the Wii, and now you're on about file size regarding level sizes which Jim goes on to disprove. When are you going to draw the line here?

^ I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn't catch the part where I said, "Hey, Jim, could you explain that to me? Maybe my understanding is actually wrong." Because, y'know, the alternative would be that you choice to ignore my virtuous quest for clarification and understanding in favor of the misperception that I'm being stubbornly wrong.

We did have a conversation about the Wii's hard-drive limitations in this (or was it the other) very thread some time ago, and the file-size issue was mentioned at the time. So sue me, I misunderstood.

Anyway, Jim... if it's not too much trouble, could you explain exactly how those "basic concepts" work? At least a Cliff's-notes version? For, y'know, my epic and virtuous quest for clarification and understanding. ^.^'

[Polygon Jim]

First it was that it's a downloadable game. Then that it has to accommodate the Wii, and now you're on about file size regarding level sizes which Jim goes on to disprove. When are you going to draw the line here?

^ I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you just didn't catch the part where I said, "Hey, Jim, could you explain that to me? Maybe my understanding is actually wrong." Because, y'know, the alternative would be that you choice to ignore my virtuous quest for clarification and understanding in favor of the misperception that I'm being stubbornly wrong.

We did have a conversation about the Wii's hard-drive limitations in this (or was it the other) very thread some time ago, and the file-size issue was mentioned at the time. So sue me, I misunderstood.

Anyway, Jim... if it's not too much trouble, could you explain exactly how those "basic concepts" work? At least a Cliff's-notes version? For, y'know, my epic and virtuous quest for clarification and understanding. ^.^'

Okay, say a file has a whole longass string of FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF's or 11111111111111111111111's or any shit like that. It can be compressed. You save a ton of filespace, with the result of a slightly longer load time.

You can also optimize how you store level data. As an example, EVERY single level and all of the level art combined in NSMBW which is a much longer game is LESS than 9mb. This also ties into optimizing your level art.


S4 has around 80 tiles for every level when it could have done it like NSMB and have a block based system and it would look identical. Instead they waste over 100mb on level art. It also has no compression. Pretty much it did everything wrong.

[Solaris Paradox]

Aha. There, now, y'see, I didn't know Sonic 4 did that. That does sound pretty sloppy.

[serpx]

No it isn't. It's absolute horse shit they're selling you. They're splitting it up because they know you'll buy this shit in chunks.

Not necessarily commented to you, I just wanted to talk on the topic of it being episodic vs. none -- I rather have chunks that may get progressively better and more enjoyable, than one giant shitty game.

[Solaris Paradox]

That... is one possible positive outlook, if a bit tinged in feces and toxic ire, yeah...

[Deef]

Quite negative if you ask me, albeit admittedly realistic.

Since when do we support devs releasing something in pieces just in case it's s***.

So even though the point is practical, it doesn't make sense to support this reason without admitting low confidence in the devs (or the devs admitting in themselves). And if that is the case I'd rather they address whatever is causing the low confidence than actually encourage this defensive style of production.

This post has been edited by Deef: 17 July 2010 - 01:04 PM

[Glaber]

I know this will never happen, but last night I had a dream about Sonic 4 and for some weird reason, you could play a Sally using placeholder sprites of Pulseman and herself.

[Dude]

Quite negative if you ask me, albeit admittedly realistic.

Since when do we support devs releasing something in pieces just in case it's s***.

So even though the point is practical, it doesn't make sense to support this reason without admitting low confidence in the devs (or the devs admitting in themselves). And if that is the case I'd rather they address whatever is causing the low confidence than actually encourage this defensive style of production.

classic sega thinking: Our developers can't be doing anything wrong, its the fans who must be at fault.

[Wing]

You can look at the episodic format in a positive way too, at least Dimps can fix their previous idiotic mistakes with each episode.
However, their advertising for the game is rather stupid. It's almost as if they're screaming "Look at me! I'm only part of a complete product! Isn't that fun!?". I'm sure that's going to lose them a few sales, I already saw some people on the SOA forums who said they're waiting for a disc release. If that ever happens...