[nineko]

Most things have already been said, but, am I the only one who thinks that the camera should be placed further back, like Sonic CD, when Sonic runs?

In my opinion this should be a standard in all Sonic games. In a game where speed and time attack matters so much, the player should have the ability to see what's ahead of him. In my opinion, Sonic CD managed to do this right and it's a shame this didn't became a standard in the series.

The SCD camera is the worst idea ever. If for some obscure reason it's going to be implemented into this, I hope that at least it would be optional (like it is in Hez's Sonic Classic, for example, even though it's enabled by default so I have to change it all the times).
And I hope you're joking when you say it should have been the standard for all Sonic games... Fortunately at Sega they were smart enough to plague only one game with it instead of ruining other games such as Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

This post has been edited by nineko: 22 January 2011 - 09:12 AM

[Selbi]

I know that many people hate the SCD camera system, but I never actually heard anyone saying why. Personally, I like it. It's good to see what's coming at you, especially when you are at extreme uber speed.

[Caitlin]

The reason (I'd imagine) that a lot of people don't like the Sonic CD camera is because it's not used in any other game. The Genesis titles are much more commonly played and follow Sonic at all times unless he's going really fucking fast, at which point he moves out of the camera's view. SCD however, has all of these complex and jerky movements with the camera that it was just a horrible wreck that should have been erased off of the drawing board.

If there's a dynamically moving camera based on the speed of a character in a video game, it's usually a lot more subtle in movements, and with the advent of more powerful consoles and handhelds, the camera is able to zoom out slightly while still keeping you relatively centered.

[Loggo]

Most things have already been said, but, am I the only one who thinks that the camera should be placed further back, like Sonic CD, when Sonic runs?

In my opinion this should be a standard in all Sonic games. In a game where speed and time attack matters so much, the player should have the ability to see what's ahead of him. In my opinion, Sonic CD managed to do this right and it's a shame this didn't became a standard in the series.

The SCD camera is the worst idea ever. If for some obscure reason it's going to be implemented into this, I hope that at least it would be optional (like it is in Hez's Sonic Classic, for example, even though it's enabled by default so I have to change it all the times).
And I hope you're joking when you say it should have been the standard for all Sonic games... Fortunately at Sega they were smart enough to plague only one game with it instead of ruining other games such as Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

If it's not too much trouble, please explain me why you don't like a camera like that. Was it badly implemented in Sonic CD, or you dislike it in general?

As we all know, Sonic doesn't play like a standard, generic, platformer. A standard platformer that emphasizes on slow, methodical, movement doesn't need a camera like that, but in Sonic's case I don't see how a wider camera doesn't make things better.

In my opinion, this is what the camera should be like when Sonic's running.


Anyway, I really hope a camera like this will make an appearance in the game, at least, as an optional mode.

This post has been edited by Loggo: 22 January 2011 - 09:39 AM

[nineko]

SCD however, has all of these complex and jerky movements with the camera that it was just a horrible wreck that should have been erased off of the drawing board.

Basically this. SCD has all those sudden movements of the viewport which can be confusing especially in sections where you have to run left and right alternatively, or even in sections where you slow down a little. The camera goes back and forth and it's very annoying. A fixed camera is much more usable in an environment where you can go right AND left.

Besides, SFR can run in 16:9 resolutions, so you can already see more than you were meant to in a 4:3 resolution. Since 4:3 is 12:9, you now have one additional 2:9 of the screen ahead of you. And there's no point into making games easier and easier.

This post has been edited by nineko: 22 January 2011 - 09:47 AM

[Loggo]

The camera goes back and forth and it's very annoying.

So, basically, the problem isn't the wider view, but the, not so smooth, transition of the camera. Even though I never had the slightest problem with the way the camera transitions in the game, I can understand your complaints. Still, Sonic would certainly benefit from a wider view, it just suits the logic behind the gameplay better.

And there's no point into making games easier and easier.

I'm 100% with you on this. But increasing difficulty using anachronistic techniques like trail & error and heavy memorization belongs to the past. Techniques like that were made to take your coins in the arcades, imo, they shouldn't have been used in console games in the first place.

This post has been edited by Loggo: 22 January 2011 - 10:28 AM

[Ritz]

Basically this. SCD has all those sudden movements of the viewport which can be confusing especially in sections where you have to run left and right alternatively, or even in sections where you slow down a little. The camera goes back and forth and it's very annoying. A fixed camera is much more usable in an environment where you can go right AND left.

I can't recall a single instance in the game where you were required to run to the left that actually allowed you to attain the speed necessary for the camera pan to occur.* And honestly, the transition was always so smooth for me that it either enhanced the sensation of speed or it went unnoticed altogether. Whatever, though!

And there's no point into making games easier and easier.

Wow, really? It's a matter of accessibility, not difficulty. If you can make a game more intuitive or comfortable to control, you sort of have a logical imperative to do so- tweak the level design to accommodate the change in mechanics if difficulty is that much of a concern.


*Come to think of it, I'm sure Stardust Speedway allowed for plenty of that. Still, like, whatever man.

This post has been edited by Ritz: 22 January 2011 - 02:39 PM

[Mercury]

The trouble with Sonic CD's camera is that...

A) It's unnecessary. Never in classic Sonic is Sonic required to react to something moving on to the screen quickly, especially in Sonic CD which is slower paced than usual. Running into things you didn't see coming is something we have Dimps to thank for.

B) It doesn't function in the air. So, the screen can scroll, Sonic will launch into the air, and turn around completely, but the damn camera won't follow him. Talk about not seeing what's ahead of you!

C) For me at least, I'm trained to keep my eye on Sonic at all times. When the camera pans wildly as his speed changes, it starts to tire my eyes because the frame of reference keeps changing. The camera does a similar stupid dance in Sonic Rush, but even at low speeds, and it puts my teeth on edge and I can barely enjoy the game because of it.

Sonic should stay centred. If somebody desperately wants Sonic CD camera, it'd have to be optional.

(I know Sonic isn't centred vertically in the classic games, but there's a bit of lag. This is okay, and even a good thing, because the player tends to anticipate the movement, looking at what they want to jump toward before actually doing it. It seems a lot of thought went into Yuji's camera system, and a lot of consideration for the player's eye movement. SCD's system doesn't share this virtue.)

[steveswede]

I have to echo the explanations with what Nineko and Mercury said about the SCD camera, they are pretty much spot on with my thoughts towards it. Overall it ruins the experience for me. I wish I knew how to code ASM with a bit of understanding because one of the first things I would do is do a hack of SCD without that shit camera mode.

[DigitalDuck]

A) It's unnecessary. Never in classic Sonic is Sonic required to react to something moving on to the screen quickly, especially in Sonic CD which is slower paced than usual. Running into things you didn't see coming is something we have Dimps to thank for.

Metal Sonic race says hi.

Anyway, I like the Sonic CD camera, although it could be improved a lot (Mercury pointed out a couple of flaws). I don't get all the extreme hate it gets. I mean, it certainly wouldn't "ruin a game".

[Mercury]

I wish I knew how to code ASM with a bit of understanding because one of the first things I would do is do a hack of SCD without that shit camera mode.

I'm working on it.

[Loggo]

It's unnecessary. Never in classic Sonic is Sonic required to react to something moving on to the screen quickly, especially in Sonic CD which is slower paced than usual. Running into things you didn't see coming is something we have Dimps to thank for.

I have to disagree here, that depends on the way you play.

In simple runs the camera is ok, but if you're going for Time Attack runs, where every second counts, you need a wider view so you can see the enemy, the rock, or the branching path coming to react without losing your speed and momentum. Especially in Sonic CD where the level design is more complex, with more obstacles and platforming than any other game in the classic series.

If you can't see much further, then everything is based on trial & error and heavy memorization. When you want to blast through the levels a wider view is needed. I'm not saying it has to be exactly like Sonic CD, all I'm saying is that, a wider view, implemented better if you will, suits the game better.

Sonic should stay centred. If somebody desperately wants Sonic CD camera, it'd have to be optional.

That would be the best.

one of the first things I would do is do a hack of SCD without that shit camera mode.

In contrast, I'd like to see all three classic games with a wider camera option.

This post has been edited by Loggo: 22 January 2011 - 03:24 PM

[Andrew75]

Wow never knew so many people disliked the sonic CD camera,
personally I think the camera adds more depth to the gameplay.
(in fact I'll be using a very similar camera system for my Sonic CD Remix project)

edit: now that I've seen people showing dislike for CD camera,I may just have to make an option to use classic Genesis camera system as well)
May not be a bad choice to do the same for Fan remix.

This post has been edited by Andrew75: 22 January 2011 - 03:34 PM

[Sonica]

I've noticed the rotation of Sonic (how and when he rotates) is very similar to that of S2HD (flat on shallow slopes, 360 on ones that go steep).

[Chimpo]

The SCD camera is the worst idea ever. If for some obscure reason it's going to be implemented into this, I hope that at least it would be optional (like it is in Hez's Sonic Classic, for example, even though it's enabled by default so I have to change it all the times).
And I hope you're joking when you say it should have been the standard for all Sonic games... Fortunately at Sega they were smart enough to plague only one game with it instead of ruining other games such as Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

The camera panning ahead of the player isn't a horrible idea. When it comes to Sonic, it's quite possibly one of the best things to add to the game. The same idea was used again in the Advance games (2 and up) and Rush games.

The only real problem is the way CD executed the idea. The camera didn't move smoothly with the action and it only ended up being a distraction.

And there's no point into making games easier and easier.

As Ritz already mentioned, It's accessibility, not difficulty. If your idea of hard is based on stone age methods, then you have terrible ideas on what difficulty should be in games.