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Chaotix Hacking (formerly Chaotix Level Editing) In case you haven't noticed what I'm doing to the SCHG page...

#61 User is offline SGR 

Posted 02 March 2010 - 07:18 PM

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QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 2 2010, 07:00 PM)
QUOTE
This really doesn't make a lot of sense to me. andlabs told me this was discovered in the final. How come we weren't able to find it in the 1207 proto?


NOW That makes sense to me. That's is simply the proto art for the credits, on which, Tails appears on a plane.

Anyway =P. If that is true, I'm glad they replaced it, 'cause the final is much more detailed.


No, what I'm saying is it's not in the earliest dated proto we have of Chaotix. What I'm getting at is that it was possibly added after 1207, but the Chaotix teams would have no reason for its inclusion because by that point Sonic and Tails were cut. It could very well be in 1207, but compressed in the same format. If andlabs would be willing to check we could find out.

#62 User is offline Overbound 

Posted 02 March 2010 - 10:35 PM

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He's in a plane so maybe he was meant to make a cameo.

#63 User is offline Mercury 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 04:25 AM

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This is an awesome find! I love the old Tornado design.

I notice that it reads "Sonic" forwards, even though the Tornado is facing left. This might mean that the Tornado was intended to always face left for its original purpose in the game. Maybe that means it was only going to be for a cinema (such as the ending), not gameplay?

#64 User is offline Andlabs 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:10 AM

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Here's the .net 2.0-tastic Chaotix art viewer, showing both types of art. Usage should be pretty straightforward. You can save the current frame to PNG or GIF; both will produce transparent images. Apologies for whatever bad programming may be seen here; I originally did not intend to release this; but if you have Visual Studio 2005 or newer, feel free to hack this if you like (just credit me if you do).











...?
This post has been edited by Andlabs: 03 March 2010 - 09:12 AM

#65 User is offline Master Emerald 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 09:14 AM

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Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..

#66 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 10:40 AM

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That sprite is missing an arm, the arms are seperate object sprites so they can be changed depending on the combi's position, without changing the main character sprite (Or having multiple main sprites for one simple arm change), surely this "could" have been in game as playable?

#67 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 10:59 AM

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QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM)
Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..


None of the sprites used for Knuckles resemble his S+K ones anyway, so it would make sense if they remade Sonic, though it seems odd this would still be in the memory and no normal Sonic stuff (yet?). The lack of a front arm suggests it was intended for the combi gameplay or some sort of intricate cutscene involving the gameplay sprites (a unique Advance 3-style final boss perhaps).
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 03 March 2010 - 11:00 AM

#68 User is offline Andlabs 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:17 AM

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QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Mar 3 2010, 10:59 AM)
QUOTE (Master Emerald @ Mar 3 2010, 09:14 AM)
Yeah that Super Sonic is not on his gameplay sprite form, so he was just making a cameo with Tails probably..


None of the sprites used for Knuckles resemble his S+K ones anyway, so it would make sense if they remade Sonic, though it seems odd this would still be in the memory and no normal Sonic stuff (yet?). The lack of a front arm suggests it was intended for the combi gameplay or some sort of intricate cutscene involving the gameplay sprites (a unique Advance 3-style final boss perhaps).

If Sonic is still in the game, his art isn't stored along with the other art in the master pointer list. In fact, it might even just be stuck somewhere in the ROM but never referenced — unlikely because the design of the 32X constrains the code 68000-side, where most of the game logic is. Basically you're limited to access to 1MB of the cart at a time, plus the first 512KB as a constant code block, so maximizing free space was a necessity. I think (I'm not sure) that the reason they didn't just compress all the art is because uncompressing everything would've slowed the game down.

Also I should note that I have not found a palette that is a better fit for Sonic in this screenshot; in fact, I doubt one is still in the ROM.
This post has been edited by Andlabs: 03 March 2010 - 11:21 AM

#69 User is offline Master Emerald 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 11:28 AM

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I'm suspecting he was using his blue color scheme. Can you find a pallet that makes him blue?

#70 User is offline McAleeCh 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:12 PM

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Hmm, in the pointer list it seems both Tails in the Tornado and Super Sonic are grouped right next to the large picture of Sonic & Tails in the Tornado that's used in the good ending. = ) Looking more and more like these were graphics intended for an ending sequence at some point. Also, for those saying Super Sonic's missing his arm, it's a separate sprite grouped in the same set. There's four frames total - two of the body with the quills moving, one of the hand flung out backwards like it is when Super Sonic's running, and one of the hand clenched more like when Sonic's running in the MD games.

Tried checking out the 1207 proto with this program, but it doesn't work! I assume it reads the pointer list for art from a specific location in the ROM, which would be different in a prototype version... (correct me if I'm talking bollocks, I have no idea how you've put this program together. = P) I seem to remember the old Chaotix Character Art Viewer from a while back had a version released that worked with at least one of the protos - any chance of a similar release here? I'd be surprised if there wasn't anything we haven't seen before hidden in there...
This post has been edited by McAleeCh: 03 March 2010 - 12:12 PM

#71 User is offline SGR 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 12:23 PM

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Made some mockups:







Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.
This post has been edited by SGR: 03 March 2010 - 12:23 PM

#72 User is offline Dehry 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 01:01 PM

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This viewer works through prototype 0202. Those sprites exist in all February prototypes leading up to the final. I suspect that 0202 is the first one on final hardware.
This is the error I got opening Prototype 119
CODE
System.IndexOutOfRangeException: Index was outside the bounds of the array.
   at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readbyte()
   at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readlong()
   at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.readartaddr()
   at Chaotix32XSideArtAndPaletteViewer.Form1.button1_Click(Object sender, EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.OnClick(EventArgs e)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.OnMouseUp(MouseEventArgs mevent)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WmMouseUp(Message& m, MouseButtons button, Int32 clicks)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.ButtonBase.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Button.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.Control.ControlNativeWindow.WndProc(Message& m)
   at System.Windows.Forms.NativeWindow.Callback(IntPtr hWnd, Int32 msg, IntPtr wparam, IntPtr lparam)


#73 User is offline Dark Sonic 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 02:06 PM

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QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM)
Made some mockups:







Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.

Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?

#74 User is offline SGR 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 02:11 PM

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QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 02:06 PM)
QUOTE (SGR @ Mar 3 2010, 09:23 AM)
Made some mockups:







Most of the coloring was guesswork using mostly existing Chaotix colors. Only two custom colors had to be used, one for the bright whites and one for the coloring on the shoes. I'm uncertain about those white splotches, but I had to improvise. Also the arm positioning, again, was improvised.

Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?


The main theory that's going around right now is that these specific sprites are leftovers from a potential alternate ending. Seeing as how they redrew Tails for the biplane, I'm guessing they just wanted to make different sprites for it, that's all. v smile.png v
This post has been edited by SGR: 03 March 2010 - 02:11 PM

#75 User is offline DigitalDuck 

Posted 03 March 2010 - 02:15 PM

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QUOTE (Dark Sonic @ Mar 3 2010, 07:06 PM)
Wow that's actually kind of cool, an original genesis styled Super Sonic. But you have to wonder, seeing as how they just based the sprites for Sonic off those from Sonic 1, why wouldn't they have just used Sonic 2 Super Sonic?


There were sprites for Sonic in Chaotix? Even if so, they were probably just ripped from Crackers, which was for standalone MegaDrive. They'd want to rework the sprites to take full advantage of the improved graphics the 32X offers.

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