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Sally in Sonic 1!

#91 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:28 AM

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QUOTE (ICEknight @ Jan 15 2010, 10:54 AM)
"A" to kick? I can't remember the last official Mega Drive game that didn't use "B" to attack (and then, "C" to jump) as default. =\


True but most of these games didn't have a debug mode like Sonic's. Using B to attack would be overwritten by the transformation code for debug mode and thus render Sally defenseless. C button is used to jump in demos it seems so that is out of the question too.

#92 User is offline LukyHRE 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:03 PM

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Just a question, is difficult to remap the debug controls to X, Y and Z? That way you'll have the ABC buttons entirely free for Sally's actions.

#93 User is offline ShadowsofYesterday 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 12:23 PM

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QUOTE (iojnekns @ Jan 15 2010, 08:16 AM)
I can't imagine anything that matters less. Although I highly doubt you were going to entertain the idea anyway, let me register my distaste at spending the amount of time and effort needed for creating a menu screen to address the most minor quibbles I can possibly think of (particularly at your fledgling level of ability) in lieu of spending time on the actual gameplay features that you want to include that would actually have an impact on gameplay.

The button is A. Get used to pressing A.

QUOTE (Dr. Kylstein @ Jan 15 2010, 11:19 AM)
I didn't expect so much bickering after it seemed to be settled in the other thread.
QUOTE (ShadowsofYesterday @ Jan 15 2010, 07:49 AM)
Careful with that. You can't please everyone. People who play with a real Genesis controller, or on a real Genesis, are likely to use the control scheme laid out in that thread you linked to (read: C button = primary action/jump). However, a lot of people don't HAVE a Genesis, or a Genesis controller (myself included). Personally, I play on an emulator with either a Logitech Dual Action or an XBox 360 controller. The Dual Action is basically a carbon copy of the PS2 controller, but for PC (and without force feedback), and of course, the 360 controller's button layout is the same. In other words, with either of those controllers it's most convenient for me to use their equivalent of the B button as the primary action button (read: jump), because that's the button that's closest to my thumb.

So remap the emulator controls! Put buttons that were close together on the Genesis close together on your gamepad. People using real hardware don't have that option, you do.

Goddamn, I didn't expect to OFFEND people by making a reasonable suggestion.

iojnekns, your argument is that putting in such a menu would take time away from putting features in the game. As if the game had some sort of deadline, and the author can only do so much. Hell, if he/she wants, he/she could give it to me, and I'd put the menu in by my damn self. That way, none of his/her time is taken away from developing features. That you acted like such a menu would be the bane of your existence ('let me register my distaste at...') almost seems to suggest you're just looking for a fight where there needn't be one. I wasn't being an asshole about it or anything. I made the suggestion to PREVENT any potential squabbling.

Dr. Kylstein, your argument is that the emulator allows people to change their control schemes. Certainly a reasonable argument, if you ignore the fact that people would have to change their control scheme every time they play that particular rom, and then change it back every time they play anything else. Also, your argument falls into the category of "Fuck changing the product to accommodate the consumer, the consumer should change themselves to accommodate the product."

The author seems to be the only person here thinking even remotely reasonably, offering to make an alternate controls version of the hack (admittedly, it would be simpler than making customizable controls, though it would lack the versatility and efficiency).
QUOTE (iojnekns @ Jan 15 2010, 08:16 AM)
The button is A. Get used to pressing A.

Personally, I use whatever button the rom in question wants me to use without complaint. The whole controls issue doesn't actually concern me in the slightest. It takes getting used to, and can annoy me at times when I press B to jump and end up insta-dashing or something (here's looking at you, BroTro), but I get used to it. I really don't care about controls. Controls on a controller with three buttons and a D-pad (not counting the pause button) aren't exactly an issue. But if people are going to complain about it and raise a fuss over nothing, then there's no point in making a big deal over giving them an option to change their controls.

That said, it's not going to happen anyway, and I find the author's solution to be perfectly sound and reasonable as it is, so I'm not going to push the idea. Whatever.

#94 User is offline Aquaslash 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 01:01 PM

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QUOTE (LukyHRE @ Jan 15 2010, 12:03 PM)
Just a question, is difficult to remap the debug controls to X, Y and Z? That way you'll have the ABC buttons entirely free for Sally's actions.

Yes, since none of the Sonic games support those buttons, you have to add the support yourself.

#95 User is offline iojnekns 

Posted 16 January 2010 - 10:41 AM

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@SoY
Rest assured, I can read contrary opinion without taking offense and I am puzzled as to how we are to discuss objections or differences if you assume that any point of objection is "the bane of my existence". The reason why I expressed disdain for the idea is because I personally would not have made a comment over what I consider such a trivial and inane detail.

I don't wish to de-rail E-122-Psi's thread by cockfighting with you ShadowsofYesterday, so please consider this post to be me simply responding to yours rather than indicating that it be the bane of my existence, my attempt at starting a petty squabble or otherwise looking for a fight, if that is possible. My point wasn't that the hack is being made to deadline or anything to do with time constraints, but rather that it seemed absurd to suggest that E-122-Psi to cater to your personal whims and preferences in regard to control schemes when it is his project, the choice in controls he implemented was his choice to make and I assume he has other aspects of the hack he would rather be working on. I'm not particularly passionate or enraged about the matter, I just thought that in the time it took for him to make those changes, you could simply get used to the new button. Honestly, the only reason I reacted at all was the inanity, or perceived 'nit-pickiness' of it. It brought to mind the incredulous squabbling over a single pixel that occurred in the ill-fated Project:Sonic Retro - to my mind, the button used to kick just doesn't matter one iota. So I said so. I'm sorry if you feel this was an act of aggression on my part. I have no wish to cause a fuss.

@E-122-Psi
That you were going for simplicity actually hadn't occurred to me. I do like the idea of using NICOLE for something though (I suspect you do to), though a lazer is definitely a feasible idea.

#96 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 16 January 2010 - 11:54 AM

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Seriously, guys it's not that big a deal, everyone seems to be agreed with the compromise which I will make next revision so lets not argue about it anymore.

Okay, here's a number of fixes or changes I could aim for in upcoming revisions:

*Suggested alt control layout.
*Fix garbled graphics (anyone know any free RAM locations other than the one used in the spin dash tutorial?).
*Fix ending, Sally goes too fast for some reason, and some sprites are garbled.
*Fine tune the attack's effect on the walls (they seem to give garbled graphics, and the jump kick doesn't work at all, branching error?).
*Fix odd sprite transition, after using her jump kick the animation transitions into her running while still in mid air.
*Another is her ground kick, whenever interupted in some manner (eg. turning around, falling off a ledge) it restarts rather than merely continuing in the new postion.
*Maybe edit the kicks into a NICOLE lazer animation instead for more unique abilities.
*Maybe add other abilties albeit without cluttering the control scheme (anyone know how to go about inputing the wall jump? Edit the Sonic_HitWall coding per chance?).
*Add 'Sally Acorn in' logo onto title screen (anyone know how to make and program new objects?)

Additionally does anyone think Sally is too fast? While I decreased her by $100 speed her accelleration seems to make her almost as fast as Sonic, she goes down slopes much quicker for some reason. Also I can toggle whether or not she can use attack when using a spring.

EDIT: Fixed the garbled wall smash graphics, also added a little sound effect to Sally's kick attack.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 20 January 2010 - 09:32 PM

#97 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 16 January 2010 - 06:57 PM

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I think Sally's speed is fine, but I'd just drop the running animation in favor of a fast walking animation.

#98 User is offline Kerio Da Wolf 

Posted 16 January 2010 - 08:03 PM

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Are you disabling Super Sonic asm, or are you going to make Super Sally sprites for said situation?

#99 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 16 January 2010 - 08:06 PM

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QUOTE (Kerio Da Wolf @ Jan 16 2010, 08:03 PM)
Are you disabling Super Sonic asm, or are you going to make Super Sally sprites for said situation?


This is Sonic 1 so there is no Super Sonic asm anyway. I may make some Super Sally sprites for a future project however.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 16 January 2010 - 08:07 PM

#100 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 20 January 2010 - 10:06 AM

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Your "spriting" skills are truly amazing, on par of commercial games.

This clearly on my top list of best Sonic modification ever!
And it's nice to see such effort on Satam characters.
Amazing work! smile.png

(Why you don't change Game's Dr. "Eggman" Robotnik to Dr. Robotnik from Satam to help in the spirit of the modification? Of course that takes maybe too much work... But I will just leave here as an suggestion to consider or to ignore...)

#101 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 20 January 2010 - 09:25 PM

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I could probably make a Julian-style Robotnik in due time, especially since Eggman seems to use such a small tile variation. As said though I want to refine the playable character before I start on the rest of the game. This project is just 'Sally in Sonic 1' as is, the game redesigns will likely be put into a separate project.

I will probably make Julian sprites beforehand however since another guy desires them for his project elsewhere .
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 20 January 2010 - 09:32 PM

#102 User is offline Kiyo Hosokoawa 

Posted 02 February 2010 - 12:46 AM

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QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jan 20 2010, 09:25 PM)
I could probably make a Julian-style Robotnik in due time, especially since Eggman seems to use such a small tile variation. As said though I want to refine the playable character before I start on the rest of the game. This project is just 'Sally in Sonic 1' as is, the game redesigns will likely be put into a separate project.

I will probably make Julian sprites beforehand however since another guy desires them for his project elsewhere .

Looking forward to your next release bud. ^^

I did however, find a bug in the game... I dun remember if it's just my DS, or the ROM, but the ending sprites are still whacked in the good ending... no matter what settings I set my DS to...

This in the ROM? If so, you still trying to fix it?

#103 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 02 February 2010 - 05:37 PM

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QUOTE (Kiyo Hosokoawa @ Feb 2 2010, 12:46 AM)
QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jan 20 2010, 09:25 PM)
I could probably make a Julian-style Robotnik in due time, especially since Eggman seems to use such a small tile variation. As said though I want to refine the playable character before I start on the rest of the game. This project is just 'Sally in Sonic 1' as is, the game redesigns will likely be put into a separate project.

I will probably make Julian sprites beforehand however since another guy desires them for his project elsewhere .

Looking forward to your next release bud. ^^

I did however, find a bug in the game... I dun remember if it's just my DS, or the ROM, but the ending sprites are still whacked in the good ending... no matter what settings I set my DS to...

This in the ROM? If so, you still trying to fix it?


Yep it's in the ROM, and it's one of the most tedious bugs so far since I have to play the entire game to check on it (the changes I've made to the program seem to stop Game Genie codes working on it). I think I'll either have to relocate the VRAM location or just try redoing it from scratch, has anyone else had this problem when editing the good ending?

I'm trying to fix things and make a newer better revision, it's just at the moment I don't really have a lot to show for it. A lot of the problems seem to be those annoying ones that you can't get around or figure out why it's doing it. I'm thinking of maybe revamping Sally sprites however as well switching the pallette around while I'm at it (since this was my first project things were obviously done a bit sloppily this time round). Also do you think the SatAm design ending/title sprites work or should I go for more a SEGASonic revamp?

Still not really satisfied with her move list either. Maybe I'll look into projectile programming so I give her NICOLE lazer attacks instead. Also anyone know how to program Wall Jump moves? I really think Sally fits jump and agility abilities.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 02 February 2010 - 05:57 PM

#104 User is offline ShadowsofYesterday 

Posted 02 February 2010 - 07:26 PM

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QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Feb 2 2010, 05:37 PM)
Yep it's in the ROM, and it's one of the most tedious bugs so far since I have to play the entire game to check on it (the changes I've made to the program seem to stop Game Genie codes working on it).

You could just make the Start button redirect you to the ending instead of GHZ1 from the title screen, and make it so that you don't need the Chaos Emeralds to access the good ending. I did the latter when I was working on the ending sequence, but then I just used the in-game level select code to play through Final Zone, because at the time I didn't think to move the ending in front of GHZ1. Changing even the smallest thing in the game always seems to screw up most if not all of the Game Genie codes though, so you'll have to get used to doing your own workarounds.

EDIT: Actually, you COULD move the ending to the very beginning of the game, in front of even the "SEGA" screen. But whatever.
This post has been edited by ShadowsofYesterday: 02 February 2010 - 07:29 PM

#105 User is offline Kiyo Hosokoawa 

Posted 02 February 2010 - 09:53 PM

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QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Feb 2 2010, 05:37 PM)
Yep it's in the ROM, and it's one of the most tedious bugs so far since I have to play the entire game to check on it (the changes I've made to the program seem to stop Game Genie codes working on it). I think I'll either have to relocate the VRAM location or just try redoing it from scratch, has anyone else had this problem when editing the good ending?

I'm trying to fix things and make a newer better revision, it's just at the moment I don't really have a lot to show for it. A lot of the problems seem to be those annoying ones that you can't get around or figure out why it's doing it. I'm thinking of maybe revamping Sally sprites however as well switching the pallette around while I'm at it (since this was my first project things were obviously done a bit sloppily this time round). Also do you think the SatAm design ending/title sprites work or should I go for more a SEGASonic revamp?

Still not really satisfied with her move list either. Maybe I'll look into projectile programming so I give her NICOLE lazer attacks instead. Also anyone know how to program Wall Jump moves? I really think Sally fits jump and agility abilities.

Hmm... Maybe when I get the ointers I need, I'll help you out in debugging the bug there. XD

The sprites however, they're actually quite fine the way they are. You said you hand drew them yourself? Yeah man! Keep em the way they are. As for the design, you could try what you think is fitting for this project. I however, just feel that Sally along with her name instead of "Sonic the Hedgehog" would work great as well.

As for her moves, the kick is quite useful and adds difficulty to the game; as it takes skill to know when to use it. However, integrating moves that require the 'a' button to used with up and down would work good too. So, keep the kick if you like, I like it very much. Adding other moves though would be cool too.

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