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Sonic 3 Complete S&K Collection on MD, with fixes, Sonic 3 music and many options.

#796 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 10 March 2012 - 01:34 PM

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View PostThe Growler, on 10 March 2012 - 12:41 PM, said:

I've only just decided to try out this hack, and I love the idea of the customiser. As I don't want to go through 53 pages for the answer (if someone's said it already), can I request to have an option to be able to change the music of when you meet Knuckles between the Sonic 3 and S3K versions? I've never really liked the Sonic 3 'clapping' sound thing they did when meeting Knux, I just found it annoying. That'd be really cool :)

*edit* ignore that; just found the settings in-game...

*edit 2* IS there an option to do the above? Trying to figure out the difference between all the music options is rather confusing.
In the Music options (in-game), on "Knuckles" field if the S3 Option is selected for him, it will play his S3 theme when he appears and in his battle S3 Mini-Boss theme (which is based on his theme), if you select S&K it will play his S&K theme in all of his appearances.
The mini-boss option don't affect this one.

Myself I use the S&K Mini-Boss music but left the S3 option for Knuckles (all others also use use S3 themes), this gives him a unique battle theme for it, with the option that makes the Sonic 3 ending play in Hidden Palace it only helps it, since well.... his boss battle kinda sucks :D

I also use the sub-games use original music, this makes S3 alone and S&K play their original "retail" themes.
This post has been edited by MastaSys: 10 March 2012 - 01:35 PM

#797 User is offline That One Jig 

Posted 10 March 2012 - 03:31 PM

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View PostMastaSys, on 10 March 2012 - 10:52 AM, said:

I Btw it wouldn't hurt make S2-mode Sonic's victory animation have the same frames as Sonic 3, it feels a bit wierd just waggle the finger using just two, doesn't feel natural.
Just a sugestion.


I actually did have a third frame in Sonic's victory pose before. I just decided to remove it to keep it authentic to the original finger wag. You know, as a throwback to Sonic's finger wag during the bootup of Sega CD games. Plus removing that freed up a bit of room in the animation file to be used elsewhere, like with Sonic's old-school ledge balancing animations. I'm open to suggestions though, I could always change my mind on that.

#798 User is offline Kaosu Reido 

Posted 10 March 2012 - 10:06 PM

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So, where's our option to replace everyone with Blue Knuckles?

Or just force Knuckles to always have that palette?

#799 User is offline muteKi 

Posted 10 March 2012 - 11:11 PM

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It seems like the boss glitch at the end of Mushroom Hill 1 has been patched up? That's cool if so; I tried triggering it and at the end of the act the signpost just disappeared off the screen completely, but MHZ2 and Knuckles loaded up just fine.

Granted, between having to wait at least 10 minutes to continue through the game and not getting a signpost, I'll take the latter, but I figured you weren't aware of this glitch in the first place (and even then I'm not sure if this is me getting lucky or an actual modification to the game code).

#800 User is offline KingofHarts 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:18 AM

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View PostmuteKi, on 10 March 2012 - 11:11 PM, said:

It seems like the boss glitch at the end of Mushroom Hill 1 has been patched up? That's cool if so; I tried triggering it and at the end of the act the signpost just disappeared off the screen completely, but MHZ2 and Knuckles loaded up just fine.

Granted, between having to wait at least 10 minutes to continue through the game and not getting a signpost, I'll take the latter, but I figured you weren't aware of this glitch in the first place (and even then I'm not sure if this is me getting lucky or an actual modification to the game code).


I think you got lucky... I pointed this out a while back, and happened to bump into it again. (Wasn't trying to find it, just speedrunning) But, yes... its still there as far as I can tell.

#801 User is offline That One Jig 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 12:35 AM

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Speaking of getting stuck, it looks like there are still some areas where collision isn't the best. Like this area in HCZ1, I can occasionally get wedged into the wall at this quarter pipe when rolling at maximum speed. There always seems to be problems with them in Sonic games.

Posted Image Posted Image

If you push right you'll be glitched out of the wall, but pushing left will get you stuck. All you can do is get a time over or reset, assuming you're not using codes.

Posted Image Posted Image
This post has been edited by That One Jig: 11 March 2012 - 12:37 AM

#802 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 11 March 2012 - 09:53 PM

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I would definately be in on the discussion here with everyone if I wasn't limited on posts but I had to point this stuff out :british:

I don't know if anyone ever pointed this out or even noticed, doubt it, but during Sonic's cutscene (after either final boss/before the credits) while he's standing on the Tornado as it flies in front of Angel Island, his eyes are green and there's a green lining between his shoes and the platform of the Tornado. It looks like he's standing on grass which leads me to assume he left the Tornado out in the jungle for too long to the point where shrubs grew on it. And the crappy color problem is also present while they fly across screen as the Master Emerald just sits on the grass with Knuckles watching as they go. Not as noticeable on the video as it would be on an emulator (which is dead noticeable) but watch at 4:13 and 4:46:



Ok so to add on, while playing as Tails alone (without collecting a set of emeralds) and defeating Eggman on his final attempt at escaping with the Master Emerald, he drops the Master Emerald instead of holding onto it and moving on as the Death Egg explodes with Tails falling to Earth. So the Master Emerald falls with Tails but stays in space as Tails continues falling. This doesn't make sense since Tails didn't collect the Super Emeralds. However, while playing as Sonic+Tails / Sonic alone, Eggman doesn't drop the Emerald and moves on, which is followed by Sonic falling alone. This was obviously overlooked in Tails' case, but I'm just saying.

And another minor (nitpicking) issue is how Knuckles is yellow/orange during his cutscene on the Tornado when seen off in the distance right before being dropped off on Angel Island. I know it's only a few pixels but maybe it's my OCD talking... idk.

Ohhh, and seriously, I'm glad someone recently mentioned the annoying ass screetching sound made by the bomb explosion after Knuckles' Big Arm boss in LBZ2, cause you hear something like it again after the MHZ2 boss results screen coming from Eggman/EggRobo while he flies by and up into Flying Battery. I noticed that they "fixed" these two sounds in S3K PC in S&K Collection; the explosion sounds like that of every boss explosion after defeat and the Eggman/EggRobo flyby transitions with a complete alarm-like sound like if you heard the cops coming.

Just suggesting all of this, cause crap like that needs patching up, otherwise I love everything you've done with this hack Tiddles... making my favorite childhood game all perfect and what not. Keep it up and I'm looking forward to whatever else you got in store.

#803 User is offline Tiberious 

Posted 12 March 2012 - 04:08 PM

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I was able to crash the game in Angel Island Act 2 (had used the codes to get all the Super Emeralds as well as the regular Emeralds. I tried, and failed, to avoid the water shield monitor, and just after getting the 1 Up underwater at the first spiked log platform, I attempted to transform. I'm not sure what happened, but it locked up horribly.

#804 User is offline Machenstein 

Posted 13 March 2012 - 10:37 AM

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I'm not sure if anyone has suggested this yet, but would it be possible for the Super/Hyper form theme to be separate from the invincibility theme? I'm thinking more along the lines of this theme in Genesis format.


This post has been edited by Machenstein: 13 March 2012 - 10:37 AM

#805 User is offline MotorRoach 

Posted 13 March 2012 - 11:19 AM

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How come I wasn't aware of this song here?

Well, I'm not sure of the idea of making a new music into the game, but I do think it's quite a fine idea to have a different music exclusively for Super/Hyper forms. Although if it would be based on the unused music from S&K Collection, I think the music should sound a bit more fast paced and sound somewhat more exciting to fit better the Super/Hyper forms, kind of like the invincibility theme in Sonic 3/& Knuckles or the Super theme in Sonic 2 are like.

#806 User is offline Kharen 

Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:42 PM

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I second that theme. It sounds freaking awesome! I actually have a copy of S&K Collection somewhere, but I lost the disc a very long time ago. I've been using emulators to play them ever since. I actually never learned how to get past the barrel in Carnival Night Zone until I started using emulators, so I've never actually gotten to hear the changed music like Ice Cap.

If you aren't going to use the music, I don't suppose anybody's done a hack that imported all of the S&K Collection changes into the Genesis version? I would love to see what actually got changed.

#807 User is offline dsrb 

Posted 13 March 2012 - 06:47 PM

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Correct me if I'm wrong (or confirm if I'm right), but I think Tiddles already offered to include the S&KC tracks if someone would prepare them in SMPS format. Gentlemen, start your engines.

That track is cool, I guess. And its being unused kinda fits with a repurposing to this new role. As long as it's optional, it's a good suggestion.



Hey, this might be within the scope of the customiser: Having just read this post, I realised that an option to use EggRobo as the boss instead of Robotnik, and vice-versa, might be cool for about a minute.
This post has been edited by dsrb: 13 March 2012 - 06:49 PM

#808 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 14 March 2012 - 08:37 PM

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As I mentioned in my previous post, there were inconsistencies with Sonic's colors during the pre-credits cutscene. I made mockups of how it would look fixed, as well as mockups of other inconsistencies. To clearly see what I fixed, I suggest you zoom in on the screenshots.

Original: Posted Image Fix: Posted Image

Now with a few other things in mind..

- Implementing proper Knuckles *falling* sprites. The back and forth flickering of the closed-eyes/open-eyes sprite animation during Knuckles' LBZ transition falling to Mushroom Valley seems visually incomplete in terms of smooth animation, which Sonic and Tails both seem to have.

- Implementing exhaust flames to the Tornado during the Hyper Sonic/Super Tails pre-credits cutscene when they're flying through Angel Island after returning the Master Emerald would make sense since it's the only instance the Tornado seems to lack the animation. Here is the original and a mockup of the animation, along with Sonic's green color problem fixed.

Original: Posted Image Fix: Posted Image

- In LBZ1, in the tower that would be bombed down by Knuckles, up-right from the moving platform, there's a gap in the wall that could be patched up to look like the rest of the wall.

Original: Posted Image Fix: Posted Image

- In LBZ1, after Knuckles bombs the tower down, the corkscrew platform and the collapsible edges remain in place even after the tower's collapse. The spot in the doorway in-between the edges (if jumped on) will allow you to avoid touching them, thus allowing you to jump out and see them suspended if you Lightning-shield Jump, Hyper Dash, or use Debug Mode. In this case I used Debug Mode to get proper screenshots and avoid spending too much time playing through the level to get to the problem.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

I hope all of these will get fixed, especially Sonic's annoying green issue, but that's all I have for the time being. I'll nitpick around for more things.
This post has been edited by Knucklez: 14 March 2012 - 11:22 PM

#809 User is offline jasonchrist 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 12:21 AM

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How in the hell have I missed this?!

What an awesome piece of work. I once made feeble attempts to port Sonic 1/2 sprites into Sonic 3k using SonikSprite, but now someone has finally done it properly. Bravo!

Just a couple of 1/2-isms to suggest.

Sonic 1/2 Robotnik/eggpods One thing I missed was Robotnik's evil laugh whenever you took a hit. I could do some modifications to the boss machines to make them fit the old eggpods if you like.

Traditional spinners What could happen here is that you have a screen lock for an act 1 boss, and instead of the spinner falling from the air the screen is unlocked as you move forward to hit the spinner in the old-school way.

and as someone has already suggested, including some Nakamura staple tunes like 1ups, invincibilities, act clears and maybe bosses - that would be cool as well!

#810 User is offline Neo 

Posted 15 March 2012 - 05:04 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 14 March 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

- Implementing proper Knuckles *falling* sprites. The back and forth flickering of the closed-eyes/open-eyes sprite animation during Knuckles' LBZ transition falling to Mushroom Valley seems visually incomplete in terms of smooth animation, which Sonic and Tails both seem to have.

All the way since Sonic 1, Sonic (and Tails) have a one-frame hurt animation, and a two-frame sliding animation, in which the first frame is shared with the hurt animation. This is also true in Sonic 3. However, Knuckles has a different behavior -- the sliding animation only uses the "second" frame, and doesn't alternate between it and the hurt frame. This leads me to believe that the LBZ sequence, much like Tails and the LRZ2 boulder, are remnants of using Sonic's animation scheme for the wrong character -- in this case, Sonic would be shown correctly using his sliding (or "falling") animation, so the proper fix would be to make that sequence use Knuckles' sliding animation -- just the one frame with his eyes open. As a matter of fact, isn't that how he falls into MHZ1 in the first place?

View PostKnucklez, on 14 March 2012 - 08:37 PM, said:

Posted Image

But that hole is supposed to be there! That's the hole Knuckles uses to reach his boss arena. Sonic can't reach it because the building hasn't been demolished yet. You could argue that the hole was only created when Knuckles' bomb exploded but... isn't this being a bit too nitpicky?

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