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Sonic 3 Complete S&K Collection on MD, with fixes, Sonic 3 music and many options.

#1 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 02:34 PM

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Hi folks. I joined after seeing this thread and thinking someone might be interested in a similar edit I'd been working on for my own purposes.

Head to the Sonic 3 Complete (hack) wiki page to download the latest version and read about what it does.

Since I'm putting this into the public domain, allow me to take a moment to credit shobiz, whose code to do the initial music switch stuff got me started on this project (found at SSRG), and apologies to the Megamix folks for making off with the B+C Super activation concept, which turned out to be just the solution to "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" I'd wanted since I first played S3K (though it has partly been replaced again now). Plus about a squillion other contributors who've helped since this original post; they are now listed on the Wiki.
This post has been edited by Tiddles: 24 March 2012 - 04:37 PM

#2 User is offline Hayate 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 03:12 PM

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QUOTE (Tiddles @ Dec 25 2009, 07:34 PM)
I joined after seeing this thread and thinking someone might be interested in a similar edit I've been working on for my own purposes.


Tiddles for tech *brick'd*

QUOTE (Tiddles @ Dec 25 2009, 07:34 PM)
for one thing, it brings back the main themes from Sonic 3 too


fddfdsfs

QUOTE
apologies to the Megamix folks for making off with the B+C Super activation concept, which turned out to be just the solution to "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" I'd wanted since I first played S3K.


Firstly,



Secondly, IMO triple jump (which SATSEE uses) or "hold one button, press another" (which the S-Factor uses, A and C buttons respectively) are better than "press two buttons on the exact same frame". But whatever. Generally if I don't want to transform I'll start a new game and avoid the emeralds =P

#3 User is offline Namagem 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 03:21 PM

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QUOTE (Hayate @ Dec 25 2009, 03:12 PM)
Secondly, IMO triple jump (which SATSEE uses) or "hold one button, press another" (which the S-Factor uses, A and C buttons respectively) are better than "press two buttons on the exact same frame". But whatever. Generally if I don't want to transform I'll start a new game and avoid the emeralds =P

I use it for ring conservation more than anything.
This post has been edited by Namagem: 25 December 2009 - 03:34 PM

#4 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 03:41 PM

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I tend to do it by holding C and pressing B - I'd hate to have to mash them at once too. You could equally hold B and press C if debug is off.

Incidentally, I didn't mention it in the notes, but the debug sprite check function that used to be on C+B is on C+A in this version to accommodate the super switch.

#5 User is offline Xilla 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 04:26 PM

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QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Dec 25 2009, 08:10 AM)
This is sweet! That is awesome music!

Now all we need is a hack that lets you complete all S3&K levels correctly in order with all characters.


On that note, has anyone tried placing Flying Battery between Carnival Night and Ice Cap?

#6 User is offline Overlord 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:06 PM

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No, but I'd imagine that's trivial to do - at a guess, 4 bytes changed and a few levels swapped around on the level select?

#7 User is offline Hayate 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:22 PM

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I'd wonder whether the giant rings would stay as the flashing S&K ones.

#8 User is offline Aquaslash 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:31 PM

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QUOTE (Tiddles @ Dec 25 2009, 02:34 PM)
Hi folks. I joined after seeing this thread and thinking someone might be interested in a similar edit I've been working on for my own purposes.

Get it here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=87YWA614

This replaces the same songs as Hayate's version, but doesn't drop any tracks other than the S&K versions being replaced, and fixes the clap sound in the miniboss and Knuckles themes. (Fun fact - DAC samples B2 and B3 are different in S&K vs. S3. Spent ages working that one out.)

It does a number of other tweaky/fixy things in addition to this, so it's probably not to everyone's taste if you just want those themes back (for one thing, it brings back the main themes from Sonic 3 too, which everyone seems to hate, but at least you don't have to suffer it during Super/Hyper any more.) It also contains the S3C 0517 credits music. So take your pick. There's a full list of changes in this version in the zip file.

If anyone wants the disassembly for any of the stuff in here feel free to contact me, but I make no warranty as to the quality of the code, and none of it is spectacularly innovative or exciting.

And since I'm putting this into the public domain, allow me to take a moment to credit shobiz, whose code to do the initial music switch stuff got me started on this project (found at http://sonicresearch...p?showtopic=636), and apologies to the Megamix folks for making off with the B+C Super activation concept, which turned out to be just the solution to "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" I'd wanted since I first played S3K. Plus Wiki contributors everywhere and everyone who worked on Music Pointer Fixer.

It does seem like, generally speaking, most people around the 'net prefer the S&K music versions, but I'm sure someone will care to use this at least - if I've been inspired enough to put it all together I'm sure someone will appreciate the result.



Well shoot, now I'm never going to play the original S3K again! Thanks so much for sharing! This is like, everything that could have possibly been wrong about S3K fixed, and tweaked. smile.png

The definitive Sonic 3, if you will.

#9 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:37 PM

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To make it an FBZ reorder perfectly, I think you'd have to do the following, in order of least to most difficult:
  • Change the level exit object definitions in Carnival Night and Mushroom Hill
  • Re-order the level select
  • Probably do something about the flashing rings... I haven't looked into any of that code but it's probably fairly mundane to alter, and it might even be possible to simplify it since you no longer have the special case of zone 04 being out of sequence.
  • Do cruel and unusual things to the save game level order and icon sequence (although if you used the Sonic 3 FBZ icon, the icon stuff would be simpler)
  • Construct a sensible alternative cutscene between Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis (and possibly Carnival Night and Flying Battery if you don't buy the idea that the cannon would fire you up there by chance - might be able to port the MHZ one over?)
I'd love to have a version that does this, but not quite enough to go through the pain of putting it all together myself, at least for now.

#10 User is offline LordOfSquad 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:40 PM

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The Mushroom Hill closing cutscene could be changed to use Angel Island's Flying Battery, maybe?

#11 User is offline Xilla 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 05:50 PM

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QUOTE (Tiddles @ Dec 25 2009, 02:37 PM)
[*]Construct a sensible alternative cutscene between Mushroom Hill and Sandopolis


The Flying Battery could just be passing Mushroom Hill, Sonic just hung onto it until it flew over Sandopolis and let go! wink.png

#12 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 25 December 2009 - 07:12 PM

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QUOTE (Tiddles @ Dec 25 2009, 02:34 PM)
Hi folks. I joined after seeing this thread and thinking someone might be interested in a similar edit I've been working on for my own purposes.

Get it here: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=87YWA614

QUOTE
Credits music has been replaced with the S3C 0517 version.
Sonic/Tails have their final Launch Base 2 boss restored, with its Sonic 3 behaviour.
Knuckles now fights EggRobo in Flying Battery 2.
SONIC text is no longer backwards when the Tornado flies left during the ending.
The music tempo glitch at the beginning of Doomsday has been removed.

Even the small details are awesome. Great work, dude. =O

However, I'm not too fond of:
QUOTE
Super/Hyper must be invoked by pressing B+C for a double jump (Megamix style).

...Just because it's not intuitive at all, with all the main Sonic games using just one button for everything, and all. =\




EDIT: After having played it for some time, I gotta ask about the reason behind this:
QUOTE
Music no longer fades out before the Got Through screen

Having the "got through" music interrupt the level tune sounds a bit... odd.
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 25 December 2009 - 08:10 PM

#13 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 26 December 2009 - 04:28 AM

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QUOTE (ICEknight)
QUOTE
SONIC text is no longer backwards when the Tornado flies left during the ending.



I like to think of this as "Fix Tails' obsessive compulsion with painting the Tornado symmetrically."

QUOTE (ICEknight)
However, I'm not too fond of:
QUOTE
Super/Hyper must be invoked by pressing B+C for a double jump (Megamix style).

...Just because it's not intuitive at all, with all the main Sonic games using just one button for everything, and all. =\


Indeed, it's a shame to lose the simplicity, and short of giving the game away in the manual, it'd be nigh on impossible to find the transformations at all if it had been set up this way originally. But ultimately I couldn't think of a better solution to the enforced transformation problem, which was one of my biggest problems with the original, personally. Triple jump is an elegant idea for Sonic, but Tails relies on that anyway for flight, and I also wanted to make sure I didn't make impossible any manoeuvres that you could do in S3K - which includes jump-super-glide, jump-super-fly, jump-hyper-dash.

It's probably a bit of a pain if you usually jump with A though. I might look at making it anything-plus-B sometime. I've used C for a long time due to debug.

QUOTE (ICEknight)
EDIT: After having played it for some time, I gotta ask about the reason behind this:
QUOTE
Music no longer fades out before the Got Through screen

Having the "got through" music interrupt the level tune sounds a bit... odd.


Simply to imitate pure Sonic 3, which had no fade. I always preferred it that way, and after all Sonic 1-2 got away with it.
I'm not sure whether this comes down to my having been stuck with the PAL version for years - with the fade there combined with lower speed, it seemed like we almost dropped to eerie silence before coming back with a jaunty victory theme. This isn't nearly so jarring at NTSC speed, but I still prefer the lack of fade.

I did add it back in a couple of places where no fade sounded especially wrong - specifically where we go straight from boss music to victory music. That used to be Launch Base, Lava Reef and Sky Sanctuary, but now Sky Sanctuary is the only one left that works that way.

#14 User is offline Icewarrior 

Posted 26 December 2009 - 04:32 AM

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Huh guys, quick question: what's this "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" thing you're talking about?
I don't remember anything particular about Hyper Knuckles...

#15 User is offline TheDarkArchon 

Posted 26 December 2009 - 04:41 AM

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QUOTE (Icewarrior @ Dec 26 2009, 09:32 AM)
Huh guys, quick question: what's this "NO KNUCKLES STOP TURNING HYPER" thing you're talking about?
I don't remember anything particular about Hyper Knuckles...


If you had all the emeralds with knuckles and had 50 rings, any attempt to glide or wall climb would result in super/hyper knuckles

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