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Sonic 3 Complete S&K Collection on MD, with fixes, Sonic 3 music and many options.

#916 User is offline SlapStick 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 02:02 PM

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Tiddles, I just want to tell you how absolutely amazing this hack is! I'm in love with it! All the customization options are great (that S3 Complete customiser on you website is a great idea). My preferred way to play is with the Sonic 1 sprites; I always preferred those sprites to Sonic 3's. I've also always preferred Sonic 3's themes to the S&K themes. If this hack were a retail game, it would probably be my favorite Sonic game. Keep up the good work!

#917 User is offline Sodaholic 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:29 PM

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View PostSonica, on 10 April 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

So, any way to give sonic his extra shade of blue in the new sprite modes?

I've already spoken to Tiddles over PM about this. I asked Tiddles if I could do the art necessary to readd the 4th shade, but he said that he'll have That One Jig do it instead, unless he doesn't want to, in which case the job will go to me.

#918 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 03:42 PM

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Talking about sprite work, ever since MarkeyJester threw Pana Der Hejhog at us with that godly fluid animation, I've wondered whether something like that could be implemented in this hack?

Could you add extra character sprites to make for a more fluid animation? Would it work properly on this game's engine?

#919 User is offline jasonchrist 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 05:00 PM

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I'd gladly throw in the hybrid project sprites when they're done!

Posted Image

If you want them of course.

#920 User is offline Hendricks 266 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:20 PM

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This may be a better fit for a standalone hack, but I think it would be great to have an S3K boss rush mode. (In my mind it would be a sequential order of all the minibosses and bosses, including the special ones for Knuckles' MGZ and SSZ.) What do you think?

#921 User is offline jasonchrist 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:37 PM

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View PostHendricks 266, on 10 April 2012 - 07:20 PM, said:

This may be a better fit for a standalone hack, but I think it would be great to have an S3K boss rush mode. (In my mind it would be a sequential order of all the minibosses and bosses, including the special ones for Knuckles' MGZ and SSZ.) What do you think?

I'd just love to tear that shit apart... without the insta-shield!

#922 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:42 PM

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If it's got to such a refined state we're asking for more ambitious extras, my best idea is maybe add additional soundtracks if you can find a good enough Genesis music composer, like the new tracks from Sonic and Knuckles Collection. Or better yet make extentions to the current soundtrack akin to Howard Drossin's official remixes. I feel the full versions of Lava Reef or Knuckles' theme would sound awesome with the game version's instrumentation:





I like that sprite design by the way, Jasonchrist. Even if not for this one, I think that would be cool to use in some project.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 10 April 2012 - 07:55 PM

#923 User is offline That One Jig 

Posted 10 April 2012 - 07:50 PM

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View PostSodaholic, on 10 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

View PostSonica, on 10 April 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

So, any way to give sonic his extra shade of blue in the new sprite modes?

I've already spoken to Tiddles over PM about this. I asked Tiddles if I could do the art necessary to readd the 4th shade, but he said that he'll have That One Jig do it instead, unless he doesn't want to, in which case the job will go to me.


I'll be ready to tackle the process of adding the fourth blue back into the old-school sprites, but for now I'm kind of at a halt with that. Tiddles is trying to figure out what all will be affected by removing the green from Sonic's palette and how to accommodate for that. This will involve a bit of trickery, with the intended result being that Sonic gains back the blue without Knuckles losing his green socks.

View PostKnucklez, on 10 April 2012 - 03:42 PM, said:

Talking about sprite work, ever since MarkeyJester threw Pana Der Hejhog at us with that godly fluid animation, I've wondered whether something like that could be implemented in this hack?

Could you add extra character sprites to make for a more fluid animation? Would it work properly on this game's engine?


Oh wow, I can't believe I've forgotten about that hack. MarkeyJester did some of the most amazing work I've seen in any game hack, Sonic or otherwise!

Unfortunately, if your intention is to make every animation as fluid as that, that most likely won't be possible given the space constraints the hack has and the limitations of uncompressed art files in Genesis games. An art file can only hold up to an absolute maximum of 4,111 tiles (4,096 + a possible 15 if the last DPLC is called starting from tile 4096). Considering that character art files for S3K are nearly full as it is (Sonic's original art file uses over 4,096 tiles alone, and that's not even all of his art!), we wouldn't be able to squeeze in many more sprites per file. Even if we did go the route of including multiple files per character, a la the "Extra" art files for Sonic and Tails's SK exclusive sprites, the ROM's size would quickly inflate, preventing other, more important things from being added into the hack as a whole. It would also be quite inconvenient to handle and convoluted to include as a patch option.

As for the walking and running sprites, the rotation of character' graphics would require altering of the code that handles how character objects are rendered on slopes and loops, or something to that effect. I don't recall how "Pana" did it, either through adding more angles which the sprites will vary on (which would require many more tiles), or if rotation technology is being used (this would actually lower tile usage for these animations, but could prove problematic in applying it to a game that already has so much "happening" behind the scenes). Regardless, such a change really wouldn't be in the scope of the hack's goals and would be a very low priority, if one at all.

Don't forget that doing this would mean that a buttload of custom sprites would need to be made for all the characters and sprite styles.

If this were a hack of Sonic 2 it would be much more easily possible, considering that there are many less things that the characters actually do in that game. Not here though, sorry.

View Postjasonchrist, on 10 April 2012 - 05:00 PM, said:

I'd gladly throw in the hybrid project sprites when they're done!

Posted Image

If you want them of course.


Ooh, these things. I'm not surprised that they would eventually show up here after the old-school stuff started appearing in S3C. Like I said above in response to Knucklez, I don't see this being part of the goals of the hack in the foreseeable future. You never know, though. One day Tiddles might open the doors to just about anything getting into this hack. I'd need to take a look at a more complete sprite sheet, anyways.
This post has been edited by That One Jig: 10 April 2012 - 07:52 PM

#924 User is offline Lapper 

Posted 16 April 2012 - 02:39 AM

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View PostThat One Jig, on 10 April 2012 - 07:50 PM, said:

View PostSodaholic, on 10 April 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

View PostSonica, on 10 April 2012 - 07:59 AM, said:

So, any way to give sonic his extra shade of blue in the new sprite modes?

I've already spoken to Tiddles over PM about this. I asked Tiddles if I could do the art necessary to readd the 4th shade, but he said that he'll have That One Jig do it instead, unless he doesn't want to, in which case the job will go to me.


I'll be ready to tackle the process of adding the fourth blue back into the old-school sprites, but for now I'm kind of at a halt with that. Tiddles is trying to figure out what all will be affected by removing the green from Sonic's palette and how to accommodate for that. This will involve a bit of trickery, with the intended result being that Sonic gains back the blue without Knuckles losing his green socks.


I am thrilled to hear this!

Even little things like this will help me play this game much more enjoyably, really.

#925 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 18 April 2012 - 11:50 AM

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One thing I just noticed now, in the laser boss from FBZ act 2, it actually have a "hurt" animation that sometimes it pops-up, for varing periods of time, but not correctly.
It might be something worthy of fixing, like when the laser hits the flor, the Doctor should always make this animation.
This post has been edited by MastaSys: 18 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

#926 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 18 April 2012 - 09:24 PM

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View PostMastaSys, on 18 April 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

One thing I just noticed now, in the laser boss from FBZ act 2, it actually have a "hurt" animation that sometimes it pops-up, for varing periods of time, but not correctly.
It might be something worthy of fixing, like when the laser hits the flor, the Doctor should always make this animation.

Maybe the Robotnik/EggRobo hurt animation should only occur as it does; after the laser's last beam, at which point the laser's control mechanism blows up in Robotnik's/EggRobo's face, which causes him to get hurt.

Otherwise, no other hurt animation is necessary since he doesn't receive any direct damage. So the only fixing needed would be eliminating the random pop-up of the animation during the boss.
This post has been edited by Knucklez: 18 April 2012 - 09:40 PM

#927 User is offline MastaSys 

Posted 19 April 2012 - 03:46 AM

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View PostKnucklez, on 18 April 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Maybe the Robotnik/EggRobo hurt animation should only occur as it does; after the laser's last beam, at which point the laser's control mechanism blows up in Robotnik's/EggRobo's face, which causes him to get hurt.

Otherwise, no other hurt animation is necessary since he doesn't receive any direct damage. So the only fixing needed would be eliminating the random pop-up of the animation during the boss.


...Or it's is more of a "oh crap" expression (this animation is actually different from when the boss is defeated btw), other bosses have this animation when they get a hit and this one it seems it's coded to appear, it just not working right.
I'm not a fan of solving problems with removing the problem itself, but I'm not the one calling the shots anyway.

#928 User is offline Knucklez 

Posted 19 April 2012 - 05:32 AM

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View PostMastaSys, on 19 April 2012 - 03:46 AM, said:

View PostKnucklez, on 18 April 2012 - 09:24 PM, said:

Maybe the Robotnik/EggRobo hurt animation should only occur as it does; after the laser's last beam, at which point the laser's control mechanism blows up in Robotnik's/EggRobo's face, which causes him to get hurt.

Otherwise, no other hurt animation is necessary since he doesn't receive any direct damage. So the only fixing needed would be eliminating the random pop-up of the animation during the boss.


...Or it's is more of a "oh crap" expression (this animation is actually different from when the boss is defeated btw), other bosses have this animation when they get a hit and this one it seems it's coded to appear, it just not working right.
I'm not a fan of solving problems with removing the problem itself, but I'm not the one calling the shots anyway.

Ohhh, I get where you're coming from now. But in this case since he doesn't get hit, he just makes the face like Oh damn, I'm blowing up my ship. Gotcha.

#929 User is offline danielcw 

Posted 20 April 2012 - 10:21 PM

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When I play Sonic 3 Complete on Genesis Plus for Wii, the crushers in Marble Garden Zone kill me very often, even if they don't touch me at all.
For example: the crusher at 0CE2 0424 (debug mode coordinate)
When I try it in Kega Fusion it happens about 1 in 15 times.

I have a save-state from Gens Plus Wii. Shall I upload it, or send it to somebopdy.

Or is it a know S3&K bug, that I missed the for last 15 years?

#930 User is offline Tiddles 

Posted 21 April 2012 - 04:06 AM

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It's something of a known S3K issue, though it shouldn't really vary between emulators. It's much more likely to happen while rolling, so try walking under them.
May as well upload the savestate anyway, as it might be useful for developing a workaround, but only if it's prior to dying.

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