Sonic Boom, trouble keeps you runnin' faster Options

[HighFrictionZone]

Just got through doing a "normal" (read: non tool-assisted) play, and the jury is in: without savestates, I suck. But not too terribly =P.


While fighting Gorbichev, I noticed a couple of things, most of them obvious, some less so:
1. Whenever you hit gorbichev, you gain temporary invulnerability. Probably to keep his blue balls from instant revenging you.
2. That street is two way. Whenever gorbichev hits you, HE gains temporary invulnerability.
3. Doing that mid-air side dash almost always penetrates that spinning shield of balls he does. This can be used to ensure guaranteed hits without being hurt.
4. If you can time a spindash such that you collide with gorbichev while he's doing that spinning field of balls thing, assuming you're on solid ground he stops you in your tracks but you remain spinning. This amounts to several free hits as your temporary invulnerability lasts slightly longer than his does, and all the small orbis he spawns hit you before their attack orbs do. Once you figure this trick out, he's much easier.
5. I've never been crushed to death by Gorbichev. Anybody who complains about such behavior probably spends too much time standing still.

I've only once defeated Gorbichev without using savestates in some fashion, and it was on the run I just now completed. Fancy that?

No assistance run (in two parts because for some reason I sucked hard at Act 3 tonight):
Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vtdGxBulCus
Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=efIbn_XkRIs

[Don Salieri]

I bet it's pretty hard to die from crushing, since he has that orb shield, which hits and pushes player back.

By the way, iojnekins, is Power Plant going to be first level in full Sonic Boom?

[iojnekns]

@saxman&animemaster
Aww shucks! You're making me blush. Thanks guys.

@Epsilonsama
Its pretty pointless to remove the offending line - it doesn't really matter now, its a done and over with. Don't worry about it.

@Ice Sonic
That playthrough is incredible - you're excellent at playing Boom, you're easily as good as me if not better - your fight against Gorbichev was frankly astonishing! Great fun to watch.

@Travelsonic - RE:"As I got yelled at for not realizing before, this is just a proto, things are gonna change between this and the next release for sure."
I tried to make it clear I wasn't "yelling" at you - although I can see easily why you might think that - I did include a paragraph explaining. I tried to make it clear numerous times previously that it was WIP, don't worry about bugs, things are subject to change, hack being made for teams personal entertainment, yadda yadda yadda, I guess I lost my patience with re-iterating it repeatedly. I hope this doesn't change your perception of me as a reasonable bloke.

@JDAdams
I love to include references to other games but the Ecco reference isn't intentional actually, although now I sort of wish it was.

@True Dude
Great tune! Some of my particular favourites from the sound test include (but aren't limited to) 0A, 0C, 14, 16, 8C - I've probably missed out some other cool ones, but the standard of what our music dudes have come up with is so high, picking favourites is like shooting fish in a barrel, in my opinion at least.

@StephenUK
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, sorry it wasn't to your taste but hey, you can't please all of the people all of the time. As I've said, I'm no artist and its my first attempt so its not the most adventurous or impressiev zone. Of course, we could go and find an awesome level artist and have great looking levels but that isn't quite the point - its more something for me to click away at on a lazy sunday afternoon. It might not be good, but I don't care, its very satisfying to do. Incidentally, any instance of anything good in that zone was probably done by the endlessly talented MKAmeX - you can see what the zone looked like before he got his shiny mitts all over it in my old SonED2 import guide (if anyone cares.)

@Ravenfreak
I'll look into that - as I say, I don't know where most of these tracks come from, I have the luxury of choosing them on purely what they sound like as a first time listener. I tagged all the music in the sound test, so thats probably my fault. If you are right, its a two second job to fix it

@Don Salieri - RE:"By the way, iojnekins, is Power Plant going to be first level in full Sonic Boom?"
Thats the plan - it might seem like a strange decision or some overly contrived attempt at individuality, depending on your perspective, but its just something we wanted to do. I'm tired of starting in a pathetically easy, generic green level and its cool to throw the player in at the deep end. It was more fun to work on a level like Power Plant first, and it also fits nicely into the level progression we have planned. It was also appropriate for a simple, boxy design for me to learn to draw and use SonED2 with - no complicated shapes or curves to make collision for, or intricate grass or plants to draw and shade (frankly, I simply wouldn't have been able to do this and we would have fallen at the first hurdle). There are probably a few other factors that affected the decision but these are the most notable.

This post has been edited by iojnekns: Nov 5 2009, 09:54 AM

[Travelsonic]

5. I've never been crushed to death by Gorbichev. Anybody who complains about such behavior probably spends too much time standing still.

No, neither I or any of the other people bringing this issue up were spending too much time standing still... in fact, one user forgot whom at this moment) even made note the other conditions needed to trigger this. but ignorance is bliss I guess, blame the player for a real game mechanic issue and it won't be an issue anymore.

This post has been edited by Travelsonic: Nov 5 2009, 03:54 PM

[Ell678]

After replaying this, using the keyboard, which I am shit with, I never lost control of Sonic, except in areas where they were spring dependant. Gorbichev pushed me out of the screen once...and that was it. If I can beat him, with the keyboard, I don't really see how anyone else can have a problem with him.

[Hodgy]

It happens every 5 hits when he locks onto your x position if you attack from below and land below him you have no way of getting out the way in time >.<

[Rika Chou]

I dunno, this hack, while technically impressive, has too much of a SatAM feel for me.

[iojnekns]

You don't like SatAM?

[Neo Hazard]

That actually makes it more of a draw for me.

[Rika Chou]

I like SatAM for what it is, and used to love watching it as a kid. Though that kind of thing is not what I look for in games.

I don't know why, but I really don't like it when people make Sonic darker like that. Still an awesome hack though. You guys have done great.

[Moonshadow Caz]

I've played this, I've read most of this thread, I've seen the arguments. My head fucking hurts.

First off, let me say that I got into this without knowing any of the hype. All I had seen was a TAS posted in another topic. With that out of the way, I don't like this hack from a gameplay perspective.

The level design isn't exactly linear, but it feels more like a QTE than anything - at least, when I'm not getting hit by spikes or an oncoming zapper I had no clue was ahead of me. The new Orbinauts are pretty cheap without either an insta-shield or having their balls thrown at me. I recognize this was countered by only using 3 as opposed to 4, but the triangle-like arrangement only leaves for little more room than what should be considered a simple Badnik. Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras? Especially when they just look like a piece of the somewhat (I repeat, somewhat) bland scenery, who would see them and say to themselves, "I think I'm just going to bust open that camera that just looks like any other nondestroyable obstacle like the DEZ electric floors or zappers"?

One thing I see in most hacks that drives me nuts is, well, let me try to show you:

Seeing this every now and then isn't a problem. However, many hacks use this way too much, and this one is no exception. There is nothing there, it's simply an empty piece of path that is time consuming and annoying. At the very least, another path could be made through the wall or something (which there are in this hack, don't get me wrong, but it can be hard to tell sometimes amongst the similar colors), not emptiness or a needless enemy.

Speaking of the design, it's basically a clusterfuck. What I mean by that is that it's filled a bunch of ramps, loops, springs, and floors-that-you-can-go-through-but-don't-look-like-it-because-they-look-just-like-any-other-solid-barrier-in-the-stage-that's-made-up-of-the-same-colors. I'm all for a well-calculated rollercoaster ride, but I also like to have a bit of an idea as to where it's taking me. Having to memorize which times to jump, to press down to roll (Those electric floors in the loops? Seriously?), and to simply navigate my way through without harm is a no-no... all with these fancy new moves that are not only confusing but not addressed to the player in a manner that's understandable.

The first boss, I only have one complaint. The orbs, in my opinion, shouldn't do damage when they're still being gathered by King Orbi. Otherwise, it's a nice challenge. Gorbichev, however... fuck him. I have never hated a boss, official or otherwise, as much as this cunt. These blue spheres fly all over the fucking place, there's absolutely no indicication of what kind of attack he's going to do next, you can't tell which of the psuedo-3D spheres will damage you or which won't when they bounce around. And just when you finally, finally think you land a hit on him, you fucking bounce off him like a bumper, the *ping* sound included for added rage. It took me many long, frustrating, angering tries to finally defeat him. With fucking savestates.

That boss had sucked the enjoyment out of my system by the time I got to Act 3, which felt like a 2D version of the annoying Quick-Step segments in Unleashed, only instead you were jumping. Oh, and one wrong move and you're dead. Unless you have savestates, you have to do the act all over again. But hey, at least this time you're able to memorize which places to jump to, right? That just might make it fun! Oh, wait...

Enough of my rage. It's 1am here and I'm tired as hell. Look, it's great technically, just like everyone else has stated, but it's not fun. It's frustrating. I do hope this becomes better in a later release. Maybe you'll take some of my advice/complaints into consideration, maybe not. Best of luck, regardless.



One more thing:
Tweaker I usually agree with you, but I just can't here. If this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game, why is this hack that has Sonic in the title and as the only playable character (so far) in it that I downloaded from a Sonic-based message board that hosts other Sonic hacks and projects that won a Sonic hacking contest being discussed by Sonic fans who play Sonic games and other Sonic hacks featured in the very same in the "Engineering & Reverse Engineering" subforum for the Sonic section of this Sonic site? I mean no insults or anything like that, but help me out here.

[Tweaker]

Tweaker I usually agree with you, but I just can't here. If this isn't supposed to be a Sonic game, why is this hack that has Sonic in the title and as the only playable character (so far) in it that I downloaded from a Sonic-based message board that hosts other Sonic hacks and projects that won a Sonic hacking contest being discussed by Sonic fans who play Sonic games and other Sonic hacks featured in the very same in the "Engineering & Reverse Engineering" subforum for the Sonic section of this Sonic site? I mean no insults or anything like that, but help me out here.

Well, first off, I said not to look at it as a classic Sonic game. Every single complaint about the level design you had was because it very much went against the bock-standard classic Sonic game design principles, which is very much the intent of the game. It is not, should not be looked at, and does not want to be a classic Sonic game. Its own unique style is very much obviously a love-or-hate sort of thing, though I feel a lot more people would appreciate it if they didn't keep trying to compare it to Sonic 2.

In addition, I find that the notion behind your implication that everything has the be memorized is very much due to your own skill rather than the design of the game itself. When I first played a build of Sonic Boom with level design very similar to—if not exactly—this, after having never played it before, I did absolutely fine and had no problems at all. Do I occasionally get hit by an electric bed? Yes—that's how I know to duck from that point forward. How did I know that spikes hurt me repeatedly to my death in Sonic 1? I hit the spikes; suddenly, I know not to hit the spikes in the future.

Trial and error is very much a core prospect of any Sonic game; regardless of that, though, Sonic Boom is relatively forgiving in that regard, save for maybe Gorbichev and Act 3. That doesn't make the design bad, though—it just means that it pissed you off. Sonic 2's final boss used to piss me off, too... then I learned to beat it without issue, and suddenly it's just as fun as the rest of the game.

Knee-jerk reactions based off spur of the moment rage do not an objective review make; if that were the case, I would have written a raging wall of text in my initial review of the game instead of my honest one. It was very much my own fault I kept dying at certain points of the game, so I improved my skill until I was able to traverse it without issue. That's the bottom line.

[FinalBeyond]

Just found a bug, not sure if it's known about, encountered during the fight with Gorbichev. I'd saved my state a few seconds before it happened, so I've been able to see if I could avoid it, but it seems I'm at such a point that whatever my action, it still glitches, just with slightly different garbled sprites on the screen, and number on the blue screen.

Screenshots:
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom1.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom2.png
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/2785286/Boom3.png

[Ice Sonic]

Man, that post was funny.

My head fucking hurts.

Then why did you made this post? Just look at all the crap you have written:

The new Orbinauts are pretty cheap without either an insta-shield or having their balls thrown at me.

That's one of the stupidest things I've seen in this topic. They aren't even new other than the look. The orbinauts in Star Light Zone are actually harder and I've never made an attempt to kill them. You should hate them then. Or if you're in Ice Cap Zone and you don't have a shield - I guess you should be pissed at the Star Pointers too.

Speaking of Badniks, how the fuck are you supposed to know that you can destroy the security cameras?

Hmm, that's a tough one....how about jumping on them? That's like saying "how am I supposed to know that I can destroy the Relieves (MGZ, Sonic 3)"

I agree, parts like these aren't good but at least you have a special move for that.

but I also like to have a bit of an idea as to where it's taking me.

How is Power Plant so confusing? I've had more trouble navigating through Stardust Speedway Zone.

Having to memorize which times to jump, to press down to roll (Those electric floors in the loops? Seriously?), and to simply navigate my way through without harm is a no-no...

This is where I started laughing. Why do so many people bitch about that? I can understand if you get hit a few times but it's really not that hard to figure how to pass them.

all with these fancy new moves that are not only confusing but not addressed to the player in a manner that's understandable.

You forgot your head hurts. That's probably the reason.

The first boss, I only have one complaint. The orbs, in my opinion, shouldn't do damage when they're still being gathered by King Orbi. Otherwise, it's a nice challenge. Gorbichev, however... fuck him. I have never hated a boss, official or otherwise, as much as this cunt. These blue spheres fly all over the fucking place, there's absolutely no indicication of what kind of attack he's going to do next, you can't tell which of the psuedo-3D spheres will damage you or which won't when they bounce around. And just when you finally, finally think you land a hit on him, you fucking bounce off him like a bumper, the *ping* sound included for added rage. It took me many long, frustrating, angering tries to finally defeat him. With fucking savestates.

Obviously, you don't have enough patience.

Oh, and one wrong move and you're dead.

Yeah, what's up with THAT?

Unless you have savestates, you have to do the act all over again.

Because the level is only a minute and fifteen seconds long. That's too much time.

But hey, at least this time you're able to memorize which places to jump to, right?

And hey, at least you have infinite lives too, right?

Look, it's great technically, just like everyone else has stated, but it's not fun. It's frustrating. I do hope I'll become better at playing it until a later release.

Wait, I forgot something.

Enough of my rage. It's 1am here and I'm tired as hell.

It's all clear now. You see? It's all about trial and error to become better at things. First time going through a loop with the electric floors without rolling? Bad idea! Posting at 1am while tired as hell and with a headache? Bad idea!

[MrPoT4tO]

I tried your hack, and I gotta say ...

I suck at it XD.

Ok, serious time. It's really a different style of what I've seen around the internet, very original, though it's not MY style. I'm more of a classic sonic gameplay guy.

But seems good, so keep it up!