Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board: What would happen if… - Sonic and Sega Retro Message Board

Jump to content

Hey there, Guest!  (Log In · Register) Help
  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
    Locked
    Locked Forum

What would happen if…

#1 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 03:48 AM

  • GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY.
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Wiki edits:16
…we lock a Sonic 2 hack onto Sonic & knuckles?

As all of you well know, S&K (Sonic & Knuckles) is known for a special lock on system that allows one to lock on any other Megadrive/Genesis game to it, and see the out come, now the only ones really compatible are S2 and S3 (S1 if you want to include the continues loop of blues spheres challenge levels), all other games either don't play or remain as a one level blue spheres challenge,

Just a little curious to know the outcome of hacks such as “Sonic 2 Advanced Edit” or “Sonic 2 Delta” or something, has anyone with a Flash Cart tried it yet? Or does anyone have a theory of what would probably happen?

#2 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:01 AM

  • Posts: 7171
  • Joined: 26-July 06
  • Gender:Not Telling
Posted Image

#3 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:07 AM

  • GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY.
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Wiki edits:16
QUOTE (Chimpo @ Apr 30 2009, 10:01 AM) [post="304394"]Posted Image[/quote]
ok, I think that's nuf said XD

#4 User is offline Banoon 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 04:14 AM

  • yes
  • Posts: 577
  • Joined: 04-July 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Auckland, New Zealand
  • Project:Yeth (hack)
  • Wiki edits:20
QUOTE (Chimpo @ Apr 30 2009, 09:01 PM) [post="304394"]Posted Image[/quote]
Yeah, but what would the special stage be like?

#5 User is offline RAMPKORV 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:01 AM

  • Posts: 388
  • Joined: 01-April 03
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Sweden
Locking on with another game takes you to a specific level number. If you complete it with all rings, you get the password to replay that level from Sonic 1 + Knuckles.

There were also a few games (Forgotten Worlds for example) that didn't even get you Blue Spheres - you just got regular Sonic & Knuckles.

#6 User is offline Tweaker 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:08 AM

  • Posts: 12389
  • Joined: 27-June 04
  • Gender:Male
Just locking on Sonic & Knuckles to any available hack won't do anything, and with good reason—all of the code for Sonic 2 & Knuckles is in the 256kb UPMEM ROM, including all of the game's data references. You'd have to do something to the effect of slapping the disassembly of the UPMEM ROM at the beginning of a hack's disassembly and making sure all the data and code references match that of the hack if you want anything to work properly.

That said, I think it's much simpler to just add the Knuckles object—as well as other desired playable characters—directly into the main game's code. :v:

#7 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 05:51 AM

  • GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY.
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Wiki edits:16

View PostTweaker, on Apr 30 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

Just locking on Sonic & Knuckles to any available hack won't do anything, and with good reason—all of the code for Sonic 2 & Knuckles is in the 256kb UPMEM ROM, including all of the game's data references. You'd have to do something to the effect of slapping the disassembly of the UPMEM ROM at the beginning of a hack's disassembly and making sure all the data and code references match that of the hack if you want anything to work properly.

That said, I think it's much simpler to just add the Knuckles object—as well as other desired playable characters—directly into the main game's code. :v:

So there's a possibility that a hack could “In-fact” be made for S&K, but not recommended to bother as it would probably be a waste of time (Not that I'm insanely attempting to of course =$)

#8 User is offline Tweaker 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 06:42 AM

  • Posts: 12389
  • Joined: 27-June 04
  • Gender:Male

View PostMarkeyJester, on Apr 30 2009, 06:51 AM, said:

View PostTweaker, on Apr 30 2009, 11:08 AM, said:

Just locking on Sonic & Knuckles to any available hack won't do anything, and with good reason—all of the code for Sonic 2 & Knuckles is in the 256kb UPMEM ROM, including all of the game's data references. You'd have to do something to the effect of slapping the disassembly of the UPMEM ROM at the beginning of a hack's disassembly and making sure all the data and code references match that of the hack if you want anything to work properly.

That said, I think it's much simpler to just add the Knuckles object—as well as other desired playable characters—directly into the main game's code. :v:

So there's a possibility that a hack could “In-fact” be made for S&K, but not recommended to bother as it would probably be a waste of time (Not that I'm insanely attempting to of course =$)

Well, yeah—it's definitely possible, by all means; the question is whether or not it's worth the effort on your part.

Don't be discouraged by me at all, though! It'd certainly be the first of its kind if you were to make something like that, and new things are always fun to see. :v:

#9 User is offline Blitz 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 11:56 AM

  • ¬.¬
  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: 09-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Project:The HedgehogHack (On hold)
  • Wiki edits:1
When I combined my (rubbish) ashura hack with S&K, using gerbilsoft's S&K lock-on thing,
all of the uncompressed art I had edited hadn't changed, only the pallete. (which had reverted back to normal)

#10 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:09 PM

  • inverted with love~
  • Posts: 2670
  • Joined: 21-June 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Project:Sonic the Hedgehog Extended Edition
  • Wiki edits:474
180
Isn't the S2K Upmem ROM something that is essentially built-in to the emulators, though? Considering it's contained on a seperate chip on the cart itself, it's essentially a completely different ROM used. Seeing as S&K is the only known official case of LockOn (isn't it? :x), emulators don't have to make a seperate case for it when loading, and just "load" the chip itself when its needed for that one specific case.
This post has been edited by Cinossu: 30 April 2009 - 12:09 PM

#11 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:33 PM

  • GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY.
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Wiki edits:16

View PostCinossu, on Apr 30 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Seeing as S&K is the only known official case of LockOn (isn't it? :x

Would that not including “Region Converters” or “Game Genies“?

#12 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:43 PM

  • inverted with love~
  • Posts: 2670
  • Joined: 21-June 04
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:London, UK
  • Project:Sonic the Hedgehog Extended Edition
  • Wiki edits:474
180

View PostMarkeyJester, on Apr 30 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

View PostCinossu, on Apr 30 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Seeing as S&K is the only known official case of LockOn (isn't it? :x

Would that not including “Region Converters” or “Game Genies“?

Probably handled the same way SRAM is handled on-cart; set a byte to 1 for access to the game genie/whatever, set it to 0 for access to the main game/rom.

Also, sorry, talking out of my arse about S2&K, the S2&K rom has the Upmem located at the end of the total 3MB S&K and S2 make together. That address mapping is obviously handled via the cartridge itself normally, but it's just another ROM file addition for us. So.. yeah, Sonic 2 rom hacks could in theory lock on to S&K, but it requires using locations to things exactly as they should be in the Upmem section. Reminds me of the old hacking days of finding code location/indexes, writing a new address or code jump to the end and then back again, etc. Fun times. :3
This post has been edited by Cinossu: 30 April 2009 - 12:43 PM

#13 User is offline Blitz 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:43 PM

  • ¬.¬
  • Posts: 37
  • Joined: 09-March 09
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:UK
  • Project:The HedgehogHack (On hold)
  • Wiki edits:1

View PostMarkeyJester, on Apr 30 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

View PostCinossu, on Apr 30 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Seeing as S&K is the only known official case of LockOn (isn't it? :x

Would that not including “Region Converters” or “Game Genies“?


Quote

To utilize the lock-on technology the hatch on top of the Sonic & Knuckles cartridge must be flipped open and a second game connected to the pass-through port. Unlike other methods of connecting cartridges (for example, in the Game Genie cheat device), Lock-On works by using special circuitry that combines multiple ROM chips into a single address space, depending on which game is inserted into the cartridge's slot. The result is that the console thinks that one big cartridge is plugged in. Devices such as the Game Genie worked in an entirely different way, running first the device's internal program, then running the inserted cartridge separately. Lock-On technology made Sonic & Knuckles 'the only backwards-compatible game cartridge', as the advertisements of the time claimed.


(taken from here: http://info.sonicret...-On_Technology)

#14 User is offline MarkeyJester 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 12:54 PM

  • GO AHEAD, MAKE MY DAY.
  • Posts: 1548
  • Joined: 22-July 08
  • Gender:Male
  • Location:Japan
  • Wiki edits:16

View PostCinossu, on Apr 30 2009, 06:43 PM, said:

View PostMarkeyJester, on Apr 30 2009, 06:33 PM, said:

View PostCinossu, on Apr 30 2009, 06:09 PM, said:

Seeing as S&K is the only known official case of LockOn (isn't it? :x

Would that not including “Region Converters” or “Game Genies“?

Probably handled the same way SRAM is handled on-cart; set a byte to 1 for access to the game genie/whatever, set it to 0 for access to the main game/rom.

Also, sorry, talking out of my arse about S2&K, the S2&K rom has the Upmem located at the end of the total 3MB S&K and S2 make together. That address mapping is obviously handled via the cartridge itself normally, but it's just another ROM file addition for us. So.. yeah, Sonic 2 rom hacks could in theory lock on to S&K, but it requires using locations to things exactly as they should be in the Upmem section. Reminds me of the old hacking days of finding code location/indexes, writing a new address or code jump to the end and then back again, etc. Fun times. :3

well at least I'll have a project task for the future to keep me occupied, when I've finished the projects I'm doing now and have nothing to do =D

#15 User is offline JoseTB 

Posted 30 April 2009 - 02:04 PM

  • Posts: 623
  • Joined: 01-June 04
  • Location:Spain
  • Wiki edits:4
Actually a hack making use of the lock-on "technology" could be interesting with clever usage of the way bluespheres work. For instance, S1 special stages generator based on the serial and a set of chunks :P

  • 2 Pages +
  • 1
  • 2
    Locked
    Locked Forum

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users