[Veemon]

SPECIAL STAGES.

Okay so I only got one idea on As for accessing the stages, you do the stuff I went over in the gameplay thread, jump into the big ring, bam, special stage.

The thing we want to nail down is how surreal and what-the-fuck the Special Stages sound like. We want to do shit that's totally out there, but not LOLRANDOM. Besides that, I want to make it show that Robotnik's after the Chaos Emeralds too, so in each Special Stage, you'll be racing against a Badnik, maybe different forms of Metal Sonic from the older games, on a five-lane track. The objective is to collect a certain number of rings before the Badnik does. The Badnik will occasionally attack you, this will be indicated by a (!) mark above the lanes where the attack will hit, and you have to move out of the way. You might be able to attack the Badnik too to get his rings, but I don't really know how to do it. Another thing I'd like to add is having to get Chaos Emeralds you lost from a boss, but that might make it too easy, like:

1) LOSE ALL SPECIAL STAGES.
2) GET CHAOS EMERALDS BY WINNING A BOSS RUSH
3) ????
4) PROFIT!


So! Let's hear some ideas!

[Phos]

It's already been decided that it's going to have a special stage based on Outrun.

[Chimpo]

Phos, on Feb 10 2009, 07:20 PM, said:

It's already been decided that it's going to have a special stage based on Outrun.

I'm pretty sure that's what she's describing, but throwing in some Sonic related things into Outrun.

This post has been edited by Chimpo: 10 February 2009 - 10:30 PM

[muteKi]

I fully support your suggestions, having independently suggested a couple of them myself.

Not sure about necessarily getting them back through a boss rush, which might suggest that there would only be a "good" ending to the game but at the same time it would be cool if, like in Sonic CD, there could be some way through normal play to get them that makes the special stages a good idea but not necessary.

Perhaps a boss or two that are apparently powered by the remaining chaos emeralds that will eventually reach a certain power level after a certain amount of time dependent on the number of emeralds it's holding. It gets harder then to beat it the fewer emeralds you have, as it will take less time to power up. If it beats you then it steals your emeralds and you get the bad ending, perhaps, but if you can beat it (and take whatever emeralds you don't have back) then you can go on to the final battle and then the good ending.

Timed bosses like that were a Sega staple back in the day, be it Revenge of Shinobi or Bare Knuckle III.

Obviously if you already have all the emeralds, then the boss's showing is akin to that of Nack in Triple Trouble on the final stage: it goes out, tries to be intimidating, and then simply falls apart. Oh that Eggman, always rushing things to market without testing them first. :P

Incidentally I'd love a Robotnik's Revenge real Boss Rush mode, in which you face up against this one along with all the other bosses (also special stage time attack) but aren't restricted to defeat him within a time limit and naturally he fights like he actually has emeralds (so that those who are good at the special stages can still experience the boss).

[Veemon]

muteKi, on Feb 10 2009, 11:11 PM, said:

I fully support your suggestions, having independently suggested a couple of them myself.

Not sure about necessarily getting them back through a boss rush, which might suggest that there would only be a "good" ending to the game but at the same time it would be cool if, like in Sonic CD, there could be some way through normal play to get them that makes the special stages a good idea but not necessary.

Perhaps a boss or two that are apparently powered by the remaining chaos emeralds that will eventually reach a certain power level after a certain amount of time dependent on the number of emeralds it's holding. It gets harder then to beat it the fewer emeralds you have, as it will take less time to power up. If it beats you then it steals your emeralds and you get the bad ending, perhaps, but if you can beat it (and take whatever emeralds you don't have back) then you can go on to the final battle and then the good ending.

Timed bosses like that were a Sega staple back in the day, be it Revenge of Shinobi or Bare Knuckle III.

Obviously if you already have all the emeralds, then the boss's showing is akin to that of Nack in Triple Trouble on the final stage: it goes out, tries to be intimidating, and then simply falls apart. Oh that Eggman, always rushing things to market without testing them first. :P

Incidentally I'd love a Robotnik's Revenge real Boss Rush mode, in which you face up against this one along with all the other bosses (also special stage time attack) but aren't restricted to defeat him within a time limit and naturally he fights like he actually has emeralds (so that those who are good at the special stages can still experience the boss).

I love you.

[Phos]

I'd like it to follow Outrun rules(on a timer, checkpoints to get more time, with forks in the road) with a chaos emerald at each destination. You can choose which one you want to go after, and it also gives you rough control over difficulty (left paths are easier, minimize left turns for an easier time).

[STHX]

I know that chimpo posted the Outrun special stage first in this forum, but on the old forum I posted the same special stages many months before. The only difference with chimpo's one were the tracks, which in my concept were going to give the impression of 3D, instead of being flat.

[Chimpo]

Okay?

[Veemon]

STHX, on Feb 11 2009, 04:21 AM, said:

I know that chimpo posted the Outrun special stage first in this forum, but on the old forum I posted the same special stages many months before. The only difference with chimpo's one were the tracks, which in my concept were going to give the impression of 3D, instead of being flat.

Psuedo-3D is the plan. Congrats sir, you had the idea. Would you like me to suck your cock?

[STHX]

To chimpo: Oh no. Don't worry, I'm not accusing anyone. You weren't on the old forum so you could not know this.
To Veemon: You're a fucking prick. Post some actual work before just coming here and bash the ones who supported this project since day one.

Returning to the matter:
However if an Outrun style special stage is done, there in no need to put badnicks or ring collectible inside it to make it look more Sonic like.

First: Sonic is fast, and most special stages where based upon this fact. Sonic runs in every special stage minus the Sonic 1 one. However no special stages where actually a race. Every one was reduced to "collect the Rings/Blue Spheres" or "destroy something". For this reason a race based special stage is something never seen in a Sonic game. This made it perfect for our game.

Second: Even in the first special stage the control over Sonic was limited. The player could control only the left and right movements of Sonic, and could make him jump. This happens in every special stage. Something similar can happen in this special stage:
Sonic accelerates and moves forward by himself.
The player can only make him move left and right (how this translate to turns: the best is to do them in the outrun way, and not in... how can I say, a mode-7 way, like the CD special stage).
The player can make him jump.

Third: So how will the special stage play?
Racing against a badnick. Racing against Metal Sonic. None of this is needed. Special stages where simple in the classic games. Yes, Eggman wants the Emeralds for himself, but the same happened in all the classic games, yet no special stages featured badnicks/Eggman. Is it really necessary to put badnicks in this one? No.
What is a special stage? A special stage is a challenge that Sonic/Tails/Knuckles must beat to have a prize (the Emerald). A special stage is not a competition. Who issues this challenge? Good question. This is not explained in any game, so there isn't a direct answer. Maybe the Emeralds challenge the ones who enter in their realm to see if they are worthy of using them, but this is only a speculation.
No games actually explains how Eggman manages to get the Emeralds Sonic failed to collect, but the best bet is that, after loosing to Sonic, he sends the badnicks to collect them. This is the point. In no classic game Eggman has the Emeralds before the final zone. He gets them after being defeated. This has no sense, but it is what happens in every bad ending (the only exception is in Sonic 3, since we clearly see Knuckles stealing them in the beginning. In the bad ending you see both Eggman and Knuckles with the Emeralds, so if Knuckles brought the emeralds to Eggman, why they are in the Special Stages?)

So, how this can work?
The Special Stage is a challenge, so Sonic must overcome a challenge. If we do not want to reuse the usual "collect the rings" thing there are only 2 ways.
A race against the time
A race against something
Both of them can be reduced to a race. A 3 laps race.
When the special stage starts we see Sonic at the starting line. When the countdown ends Sonic immediately boost to its max speed. After each lap his max speed value increase, but the time required to finish the lap reduces (example: lap - 1 minute. Lap 2 - 50 seconds. Lap 3 - 40 seconds)

What kind of hazard can be in the special stage?
If the player can't complete a lap in the given time, the Special Stage fails. The unused time for a lap can be added to the total time for the following lap (example: the 1st lap must be completed in 1 minute, but if the player completes it in 55 seconds the remaining 5 seconds are added to the lap 2 time). So the hazards must make Sonic to lose time.
The first hazard can be the usual dust in the borders of the track, like in many racing games. This hazard is simple: it slows down Sonic. When the race starts Sonic immideately reaches the max speed, but if Sonic slows down during the race he will need some time to return to his max speed again (kinda like what happens during normal gameplay). The dust, or simply the outside of the track, do not necessairly needs to be in the borders of the track, but can also be in the center (this depends on the track shape).
Another kind of hazard can be something like a bomb. If Sonic touches it he is blasted away and stops on the ground for a pair of seconds. Unlike the outside of the track, Sonic comes to a complete halt with this one, resulting in a greater loss of time.
The max speed increase can be considered an hazard too, since the faster goes Sonic, the harder it becomes to turn.

Role of the rings?
The rings will act like they do in the normal gameplay: they protect Sonic from hazards.
If Sonic has rings while running in the dust he will lose rings instead of speed. If Sonic has rings when he touches a bomb he will still be blasted away (losing a set amount of rings in the meantime. The amount will be decided after), but he will also recovers faster and immediately be back at his actual max speed.
Rings will be placed in the track, and there could be a "perfect bonus" if the player manages to collect every ring without losing them in a Special Stage.

Seems interesting, but what is this talk about laps?
This is the main difference with the usual Special Stage.
Sonic must complete 3 laps on the same track to get the Emerald. What does this mean? It means that if Sonic collects a ring in lap 1, that ring will not appear in lap 2 or 3. However the same can be said for the bombs. If a bomb explodes in lap 1, that bomb won't reappear in lap 2 or 3.
This too can be considered an additional hazard, since: let's say the player gets all rings during the first lap, but then loses them during the second lap. The player will need to complete the remaining third lap without rings and without the possibility of collecting them during this lap.

Last thing: if Sonic must race against something nothing changes. Just change the time limit to the time needed for the competitor to finish a lap.


This is what I posted on the old forum, just to know.

[Matwek]

I while back I had an idea for an emerald powered boss.
How about there's 7 slightly stronger badniks you have to fight each powered by a different coloured emerald, they take 2 or 3 hits to kill so if you're up against one its not a problem but if you have to fight all 7 in succession it becomes harder.

Although I'm in favour of the idea that you face the same number as the emeralds you have rather than the number you don't, this way it provides a challange for the people who go out and collect everything rather than penalizing someone who doesn't.

[Ollie]

Is everyone forgetting this concept:

[Ice Sonic]

Ollie, on Feb 11 2009, 03:45 PM, said:

I personally think this is a lot more better than the Outrun idea.

I thought I was the only one.
Not saying that the Outrun idea is bad but it's resembles Sonic CD special stages while this one looks just like the special stages in the Mega Drive games.
Also by looking at those pictures those special stages could be very challenging.

[Ollie]

It's also got a really nice mix of Sonic 2 and Knuckles Chaotix styled stages, surely this is the style we are aiming for.

[Dr. Mustache]

Hmmmmm, taking a page from Sonic Chaos, multiple special stage types?
Just trying to provide a compromise there.

Personally I like both concepts so I'm not gonna choose

This post has been edited by Dr. Mustache: 11 February 2009 - 11:30 AM