[Matwek]

Its still very much the same project as its always been, the way I see it is that from time to time people like to go on a creative detour.
Although I do wish the same level of effort was put into some stuff we could definetly use.

[STHX]

First:

Jayextee, on Dec 13 2008, 06:14 PM, said:

You guys really considering using that in this project..?

Something from 8bit Sonic 2? I'm confused, I thought this was supposed to look like something in the main Sonic the Hedgehog series that came some time after Sonic 3K. The sprites look good, but to me it seems like something that would be strange to have in this project.

If you put it that way you're right, but can't this be said for something else too? Or better, for someone else too?
Of course, I'm speaking about Nack. Maybe you forgot, but he too never appeared in a mainstream Sonic game. His first appearance was in Sonic Triple Trouble, and after that he only reappeared again in Sonic Drift 2 (another 8-bit game), in Sonic The Fighters (an Arcade Game), and he made a very minor cameo as a item in Tails Adventure.
Yet, no one questioned about his appearance in this project. I like Nack, and he appeared in more games than MS Silver Sonic, but, again, would Sega truly putted him in "a possible Sonic 4"? Someone may say yes, since he was supposed to appear in Sonic X-treme (or at least this is what I remember), but we are not doing a X-treme remake (well, since this game was never released, maybe this term is not right).
I already said my opinion on why the name Sonic 4 should not be used in the ""Important Project Structure Discussion" topic.
Nack and MS Silver Sonic have a similar situation: they are rather unknown characters, but they have many fans. Besides, I never said that MS Silver Sonic must be part of the story. He can be just a mid-boss, and he doesn't need to be just a copy of the 8-bit Sonic 2 boss.


Third:

Resel, on Dec 16 2008, 02:35 AM, said:

Uhm, no, I'm pretty sure it still has the same mission and goal as Sonic 4, just with a new name. Otherwise, I think that it could be a mish-mosh of OMG sonic ideas fan game lolz.

I might be wrong, but that's just how I feel about it.

And I agree that the 8-bit Silver Sonic should not make an appearance, I don't see the point. If he does, it should be for a very minor role.

I never said he should be the final boss, or that he should be important to the plot. I just think that multiple versions of Metal Sonic could appear. But in the end they may only be bosses or mid-bosses and will have no role (apart from trying to kill Sonic) in the story.

However, what you said about a "mish-mosh of fangames idea" is wrong. Every new game start with ideas. No ideas, no game. Copying Sega will not allow us to make a good game. Any idea hides the potentiality of becoming shitty or great. What makes a fangame bad is its quality, not the quantity. A similar thing can be said for real games too. A game may have a lot of features but may suck, and another game may be funny but may also be short. A great game is achieved when quantity and quality are both perfectly combined inside itself. A perfect example of this is S3K. It has 14 wippin' zones, yet none of them is boring or not inspired. This too may be a reason on why this is considered the best Sonic game ever.
But when I think of this project I believe that, if there is someone who can make a Sonic game better than S3K, then that someone is in this forum, because the talents here are really impressive, and probably the best of the Sonic community.

Fourth:

Matwek, on Dec 16 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

Its still very much the same project as its always been, the way I see it is that from time to time people like to go on a creative detour.
Although I do wish the same level of effort was put into some stuff we could definetly use.

I'm sorry. I'm the one who posted the first MS Silver Sonic sprite, so I'm the one who started all of this (this is one of my problems. Suddenly I think about something and I want to try it). I didn't want to distract other users with less important things, it is just that I don't have a clear idea on what should I contribute for this project.
I supported this project since the beginning, but I don't know on what exactly should I focus for the moment. I can't help with programming and music, but I can help with concepts and sprites. However on what concepts and sprites should I focus? Should I (and the other members) focus only on Sonic for now? I think Sonic should be an important target because he is the main character, and the game revolves around him. Besides, what demo could be made if the Sonic sprite sheet is not full? ;P
I'm sure that if you or another leader tell us to stop posting random ideas and to focus only on specific things we will gladly help in all the ways we can.

[Jayextee]

You know what? I actually do not think that SMS Silver Sonic should appear in the game. But you know, for the purposes of balance and getting the best result possible, I look at possible designs anyway too see if they sway my opinion. It hasn't as yet, but there's some nice stuff anyway. Who's to say this artifact from the past wouldn't merely cameo, or be a background detail? Many game sequels pay homage to their roots in the same manner.

Incidentally, if you want to tackle something else, try Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Fang/Eggman or even completely new Metal Sonic designs. The choice is yours, just be sure to explore as many avenues as possible.

[muteKi]

Jayextee, on Dec 17 2008, 01:35 PM, said:

You know what? I actually do not think that SMS Silver Sonic should appear in the game. But you know, for the purposes of balance and getting the best result possible, I look at possible designs anyway too see if they sway my opinion. It hasn't as yet, but there's some nice stuff anyway. Who's to say this artifact from the past wouldn't merely cameo, or be a background detail? Many game sequels pay homage to their roots in the same manner.

Incidentally, if you want to tackle something else, try Sonic/Tails/Knuckles/Fang/Eggman or even completely new Metal Sonic designs. The choice is yours, just be sure to explore as many avenues as possible.

I think a copy of it could appear much in the same way as those Metal Sonic designs did in Sonic Adventure -- in a scrap heap or in a collection of all the old designs.

[Rokkan]

Metal Sonic from Sonic CD should be included with his Sonic CD design, he's just plain badass and one of the best things about old-school Sonic. However, about Mecha/Silver Sonic we should definately create a new design. There wasn't a single game which did recycle the same Mecha Sonic design, even Sonic Adventure's Mecha Sonic at the Final Egg had some changes.

[ICEknight]

STHX, on Dec 17 2008, 01:26 PM, said:

Nack and MS Silver Sonic have a similar situation: they are rather unknown characters, but they have many fans.

...They're not in the same situation at all, Nack was being treated as a main character after his debut, while the other was just one boss in an average* SMS game, and that was it.




*Sorry to all the 8-Bit Sonic 2 fans, but I don't think it was really the sequel that should have been. =|

[Matwek]

STHX, on Dec 17 2008, 06:26 PM, said:

Matwek, on Dec 16 2008, 02:40 AM, said:

Its still very much the same project as its always been, the way I see it is that from time to time people like to go on a creative detour.
Although I do wish the same level of effort was put into some stuff we could definetly use.

I'm sorry. I'm the one who posted the first MS Silver Sonic sprite, so I'm the one who started all of this (this is one of my problems. Suddenly I think about something and I want to try it). I didn't want to distract other users with less important things, it is just that I don't have a clear idea on what should I contribute for this project.
I supported this project since the beginning, but I don't know on what exactly should I focus for the moment. I can't help with programming and music, but I can help with concepts and sprites. However on what concepts and sprites should I focus? Should I (and the other members) focus only on Sonic for now? I think Sonic should be an important target because he is the main character, and the game revolves around him. Besides, what demo could be made if the Sonic sprite sheet is not full? ;P
I'm sure that if you or another leader tell us to stop posting random ideas and to focus only on specific things we will gladly help in all the ways we can.

Personaly I would like to see more work done towards the actual level tiles but I think im just going to have to except the fact that its going to be a long process, although don't get me wrong I do like the creative detors as they inspire ideas, such as...

From time to time I remember about the idea I had way back of a metal sonic factory as a level and the more work that is put into this project the more I can see it fitting in.
I always imagined it as a level where the old metal sonics of past games are the main enemy with their various movement style based on their old designs. eg. the MS sonic with his whip like claw thing, Sonic 2s metal sonic being much bulkier and slower but more powerful, the S&K metal sonic attacking with quick bursts of speed and the sonic CD one flying all over the place. They could even be in the process of being built with some without legs crawling along the floor or maybe unstablely explosive. Then maybe at the end of the level a whole new metal sonic design.

I admit that this idea, although discused a lot (mainly by me) hasn't really taken off but I do think its an avenue worth exploring, redesigns of old metal sonics in various forms of completion and a whole new one to go with that.

[Rokkan]

Maybe we could, Matwek, have a Mecha Sonic from S2 SMS as a nomal badnik in the last stage, just for the sake of cameo-ness.

[Matwek]

Rave, on Dec 17 2008, 11:29 PM, said:

Maybe we could, Matwek, have a Mecha Sonic from S2 SMS as a nomal badnik in the last stage, just for the sake of cameo-ness.

As it stands im not really up on the idea of a cameo unless its only in the background as a passing reference.
But I do think it could work if a reason is given as to why its there, such as the broken down, half-built redesigns I suggested (or maybe another idea) then I think it could work.

[nineko]

Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 8-bit wouldn't fit in Sonic 4
Silver Sonic from Sonic 2 8-bit would fit in Sonic Retro

'nuff said

This post has been edited by nineko: 18 December 2008 - 04:05 AM

[Tweaker]

I don't think he'd fit in either, personally. It's not a terribly compelling or interesting design; and, especially when you consider that at this point Metal Sonic has gone though far superior, technologically advanced, and intimidating designs, the Sonic 2 8-bit Silver Sonic would be a poor choice to make.

The only, only way I could see it working is if you had a series of boss fights that involved fighting against every incarnation of Metal Sonic. Outside of that, it's seriously lacking context.

[Thundertimi]

I, think also, that we could use sonic cd metal or create our own metal.
Or then, that silver sonic from sms could just be enemy somewhere, and it's purpose is to show, how much
more skill sonic have nowdays. What was hard to him earlier, is easy piece of shit nowdays. :P

But, as I said earlier, I don't see any reason to add that in game.

[Flare]

I agree with Tweaker, he doesn't fit it at all.

He doesn't have the best of designs either, personally, I know for some reason people love him, but there is much more appealing designed badniks than Silver Sonic from 8bit.

[roxahris]

I'm going to have to agree with you guys; the 8bit Metal Sonic doesn't go in at all. And, no offense, STHX, but your "remake" sucks.It's too bland, and looks like it was put under a filter! Sure, maybe if you redesigned him... which brings me to my next... thing.

Matwek, on Dec 18 2008, 08:54 AM, said:

From time to time I remember about the idea I had way back of a metal sonic factory as a level and the more work that is put into this project the more I can see it fitting in.
I always imagined it as a level where the old metal sonics of past games are the main enemy with their various movement style based on their old designs. eg. the MS sonic with his whip like claw thing, Sonic 2s metal sonic being much bulkier and slower but more powerful, the S&K metal sonic attacking with quick bursts of speed and the sonic CD one flying all over the place. They could even be in the process of being built with some without legs crawling along the floor or maybe unstablely explosive. Then maybe at the end of the level a whole new metal sonic design.

I, personally, think this is an awesome idea. While I don't think it should be a level of it's own... a bunch of Metal/Mecha Sonic boss fights in Eggman's base sounds like an awesome idea. Maybe not just as their original versions... but remade somewhat? Like, say, if Eggman was working on his earlier versions a bit more... but couldn't be bothered to finish all their upgraded designs...?

Then again, I also think there should be a boss rush at the end of the game, but that seems like an idea people would disagree with more...

[Phoenix]

Tweaker, on Dec 18 2008, 01:49 AM, said:

The only, only way I could see it working is if you had a series of boss fights that involved fighting against every incarnation of Metal Sonic.

Which would be completely epic. Other than that, the idea that I just had (reading about the past designs thing) was that in the background at one point in the final level, there could be multiple containers of some sort, each holding a past metal sonic.

This post has been edited by Phoenix: 19 December 2008 - 07:38 PM