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Sonic 2 Retro Remix Current Version: SAGE 2011

#571 User is offline Cinossu 

Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:19 PM

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Honestly? I like the hack exactly as it is; new moves for Sonic, new/remixed levels, missions for each level, and an overworld with things to do.

Keep it the same, and keep going. Don't give up and change things now, not when you have everything working so well.

#572 User is offline Icewarrior 

Posted 06 December 2011 - 01:53 PM

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I'm with Cinosssu there.
People complaining about world hub and emeralds to collect in order to progress?
Screw those lazy gamers that are so used to their save states to finish games off quickly in 5 minutes, you have a fantastic hack with a lot of things that are unique in the Sonic hacking scene.
This post has been edited by Icewarrior: 06 December 2011 - 01:54 PM

#573 User is offline Selbi 

Posted 06 December 2011 - 03:09 PM

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I was always one of the "Yeah, this is a pretty cool hack and looks nice and all, but I just suck at it, so I won't really play it". The problem with Retro Remix always was its difficulty. As a new player of this hack you are being thrown into a complete new world, both artistic and level design wise. And if that isn't already enough, you have to search for fucking gems.

Please do not think I'm trying to say "This is a good hack but not executed well", because it isn't bad executed, not at all. In fact, this is one of the cleanest and most polished hacks out there (if not the one). It simply doesn't give people (or at least some of them, I read the older posts of this topic) that "Man, I really want to continue to play and finish this game" feeling. The emeralds aren't really "cleverly hidden" in the way you would imagine. Take Mario 64 as an example. It was clear what you had to do or at least had some sort hint that actually hinted you. Here you do have hints, but they merely act as a little pointer, than something that actually gives you a proper idea what to do. The idea to add that distance meter was a step in the write direction, but as Egoraptor once said "The minor tweaks can't fix an overall broken concept".

My conclusion: Re-invent part of the wheel for this hack. Don't start at zero, just re-think your ideas and see what you can do. I'm not against the emerald hunting idea. In fact, this makes this hack unique and therefore you should definitely keep it in. All I'm saying is that there might be better and more entertaining ways to get players to approve this sort of hack. The time where you can only impress with awesome graphics and programming skills are long gone - solid gameplay is now your best friend.

Criticize me if you feel to, I don't mind at all. This is just my honest opinion about this hack.

#574 User is offline dsrb 

Posted 06 December 2011 - 04:21 PM

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View PostRokkan, on 05 December 2011 - 04:07 PM, said:

Could you add gimmicks and stage elements from non Sonic 2 games? Idk if that's even possible, but it'd be really interesting to have, idk, that spiky log from Green Hill for instance in Mystic Woods Zone. While the level layouts are really fresh and new, they could mix elements from even more other stages to feel even more new and interesting.
Yeah, I'd like this too (short of asking for a Retro Remix of the other classic games ;)), and good example. Whilst this kind of thing should obviously take a back-seat to the gameplay itself, it would be a nice touch on top. Similarly, W.A.C. has some good points, but again the gameplay should be the main consideration: This is one of the few hacks that can get away with using familiar graphics (when it does) because the level layouts are distinctive—and actually matter, unlike so many others.

Selbi: To be fair, it is a lot easier now than it used to be. I used to think almost exactly the same, but in the latest version I think the balance is almost there, perhaps with the exception of the Time Attacks—although maybe I just suck at those! I'm actually almost coming to enjoy the 7 emerald monitor missions, which I would never have expected.

Overall, yeah: keep the core concepts intact, rather than bending over backwards to please people who just want to hold right for half an hour for the millionth time.
This post has been edited by dsrb: 06 December 2011 - 04:24 PM

#575 User is offline steveswede 

Posted 06 December 2011 - 09:37 PM

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View Postdsrb, on 06 December 2011 - 04:21 PM, said:

Selbi: To be fair, it is a lot easier now than it used to be. I used to think almost exactly the same, but in the latest version I think the balance is almost there, perhaps with the exception of the Time Attacks—although maybe I just suck at those!

Just keep on trying as I used to think that the time attacks were unfair (CPZ act 2 was a bitch when trying to get that the first time) but you will get so much better over time when finding out the quickest route.

#576 User is offline Hitlersaurus Christ 

Posted 07 December 2011 - 01:17 AM

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View PostThorn, on 05 December 2011 - 01:13 PM, said:

Right, might as well post here since the topic's received a bump.

@dsrb: The text removal was deliberate in an attempt to make clear that there is no reward for getting a certain score. I wanted to remove the screen entirely, but it seems that VRAM is toyed with during it in order to get back to displaying normal level graphics, so I did a quick and dirty edit. I'm pretty sure you're talking about the score error in Cascade Valley 3 instead of 2, which I spotted last month and have fixed for the next release (it should have been 17000). Lastly, if I didn't increase the HP on the final bosses, they would be beatable before they even get two attacks off, I.e. before they start their new attack patterns (and seriously, I made it so that you can whale on the final boss with little consequence, so I think the added HP is pretty necessary).

All around I am very displeased with the 2011 build, both in terms on circumstances around it and the game itself. I lost my last computer to hardware failure (but was smart enough to make constant backups as it started to die) about a month before the hacking contest, causing me to miss that and to be late to SAGE by half a day. I also had the misfortune of my SAGE entry e-mail landing in the recipient's junk folder, where it wasn't seen until right before SAGE started; hence, my booth was posted too late to be on the slide-out list of 24 and was only viewable on the main booth page. The game itself was a rushed job to get something out before all of the main Sonic fan game events were done for the year, so bugs like the ones in the previous post and the sharing of overworld respawn points between Acts 2 and 3 cropped up, and DNX's admittance that he may not continue on the project meant that I had to work with things I was capable of making art for.

So where does the hack go from here? The original plan that I conceived back in late 2009 or early 2010 was to create a large selection of levels, then to try to fit a stupid little story to it... something along the lines of fitting in a second character such as Mighty that has more "classic" Sonic gameplay while I give Sonic all of the new moves I've made so far, and to have the player proceed through with both characters. Except in the time I spent making levels and tweaking the hack, keeping this story to myself so that the Internet didn't barf at the sight of a fan game with a story, SEGA made exactly that game. FUCK. That's not to say I couldn't still do it, but the novelty's gone now. :P I do have other things in mind to do with the hack, such as replacing the overworlds with a world map and having alternate exits that lead to other acts, having more special stages and using the Chaos Emeralds from there in the same way that early Crash Bandicoot games used Color Gems for platforms, and having many acts per world to compensate for my now lacking ability to have more zone art.

On a random note, I know Sik asked me to integrate Puyo / Mean Bean somehow, and I know how I could do it, but I lack the know-how to get it working (I'd imagine having up to 72 Puyo objects on screen would cause serious lag with the whole of the Sonic engine running, so I'd have to pause everything else going on).

I am very open to ideas right now, whether they be people saying "have the hack do this" or people who care to contribute art/music/whatever to prevent this from being a solo project. I'll probably get back into serious work on this early next year when I am done playing all of the new games from the holiday season and I'm on break from classes.

Please, please, please keep the hack's gameplay the way it is. The overworld and level progression are one of the main draws to the game. Adding a map screen would take away from the experience. Since the mechanics are in place, I think you should focus on adding more original levels and maybe tweaking the number of emeralds required at parts. The ideas you've mentioned aren't bad by any means and I'd love to see them done in a hack some day, but they aren't Sonic 2 Retro Remix. This is my favorite hack, and I'd hate to see it become something else entirely.

#577 User is offline dsrb 

Posted 14 December 2011 - 05:08 PM

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77 emeralds, about ready to kill myself now. And not due to satisfaction!

I could construct a long and undulating lament about many different things, but for now I'll just mention how much fuck CPZ and its emerald monitors. Overall, I guess I'll have to look for hints on YouTube before next time.

Not to say I'm not looking forward to more! Apparently this is the kind of punishment that I can't get enough of. :D

Edit (to avoid bumping this again and looking like a big old attention whore):

Now at 89. CPZ2 almost reduced me to a blathering husk of undiluted bitterness, but I came through. After an untold number of hours! I'm gonna take a break, largely due to the thought of Metropolis.

A couple of graphical things I noticed: (1) Since the new sprites for the horizontal/vertical spring dashes/attacks use the objectively correct and superior prism-y (can't think of a word) spines, is there any chance that the Mobius-strip/springboard sprites will be altered accordingly; that is, to remove the horrible razor-blade style spines? (2) The K in the title-card font is missing the black shadow on the bottom of one of its legs.
This post has been edited by dsrb: 18 December 2011 - 05:08 PM

#578 User is offline BlackHole 

Posted 25 September 2014 - 04:08 PM

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With Sonic 2 HD's revival and Sonic 1 Megamix reappearing, I figure now would be a good time to ask how Sonic 2 Retro Remix is coming along?

#579 User is online W.A.C. 

Posted 25 September 2014 - 04:18 PM

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This is one of my favorite rom hacks, so it would be cool to hear an update. It's been so long since we've heard anything about it.

#580 User is offline steveswede 

Posted 25 September 2014 - 10:55 PM

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I think this hack is done and dusted guys.

#581 User is offline SonicVaan 

Posted 26 September 2014 - 04:06 AM

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Aww and I thought there was an update finally. D: I already PM'd Thorn over a year ago and he was like "in a few months". Seems he's forgotten about it. :/

#582 User is offline DalekSam 

Posted 26 September 2014 - 04:15 AM

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Tip: Thorn was active in #retro a couple weeks ago and we talked about progress of our work so far.

He's still slugging at it. You're not entitled to see anything he doesn't want you to.

#583 User is offline BlackHole 

Posted 26 September 2014 - 04:18 AM

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Ah, so it's coming along, good. I look forward to seeing what he wants known to the public, be it a teaser or the full game completed months down the line.

#584 User is offline steveswede 

Posted 26 September 2014 - 07:02 AM

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This news makes me giddy inside.

Also this is something I was working on a while back that I wanted to contribute but stopped due to S2RR going silent.

Posted Image

I've reworked Sonic's face and shoes, made the monitor symbols pop out more and a few edits to the Sonic 2 type chaos emeralds.

You're free to use them if you want, not bothered if you do just thought you might like these.
This post has been edited by steveswede: 26 September 2014 - 07:03 AM

#585 User is offline Xeta 

Posted 26 September 2014 - 08:39 AM

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I'm glad that S2RR is still alive, too! It has to be one of my favorite Sonic hacks.

Same as with Megamix, confirmation by the creators that the project is still going is really all I need.
This post has been edited by Xeta: 26 September 2014 - 08:44 AM

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