[mikeblastdude]

Ooh, nice touch. I think I'll work on it a bit more and see what I can come up with. Thanks for the advice.

[Vincent]

Quote

Anyway. Hi. I've been working on spiker (tsun-tsun) from Hill Top Zone:

WIP, not finished, bla bla bla. etc, etc...

I'm sure I have some things wrong though. Like his legs. As I'm basing it of both the sprite as of the illustration. But hey, let me know what you think!

Good work.

Suggestions:

-The left leg must be connected to the body like the original, not hidden.
-The eyes needs shading like the original
-The head needs to be moved downwards, the spiked-cap seems too pressed onto his head.
-NO GRADIENTS FOR CHARACTERS AND ENEMIES, I invite everyone to please read with attention the summary of our project.


Mikeblastdude
Please remember to add a stronger shiny spot on his top! It's really perfect!
Anyway why can't you resize it?, Is it vector art?
If not please do it!

We will immediately integrate that bumper in our project.

This post has been edited by Vincent: 29 April 2008 - 03:58 AM

[Athelstone]

I like how this little guy is coming along *tickles its chin*. Here's my feedback:

- The general gradient for this badnik is excessive. I counted the colours to be 1244. Blue Streak's spikes for example are 190 colours.
- Manual shading should be used where possible.
- I think the gradient on his black shell especially is excessive. The shine I think ought to be only at the top right, as per the original sprite, rather than across the whole shell.
- His black shell ought to be jet black as opposed to grey (this is a problem again with the gradient).
- Gradient on the eyes seems a tad excessive too, try to go for manual shading.
- Antennas ought to be thicker, yellower and shorter as per the original sprite.
- The chin part's shape needs a little fixing and it should be yellow and black as per the original sprite.
- The shell should extend over the top of the head as per the original sprite.
- The black pupils seem a tad too large in comparison to the original sprite, I think they should be smaller

Overall, the shape isn't too bad, quite a few changes are needed but it has potential, thank you for the contribution.

This post has been edited by Athelstone: 29 April 2008 - 06:24 AM

[SwissCM]

What about dithered gradients for some things? There are some cases of dithered gradients in Sonic 2 I think. Obviously it should be a case-by-case basis.

[Vincent]

I believe with the actual palette we have there is no need to use that,

If shades are done correctly (I repeat myself) there's no need to do gradients.

[uk resistant]

Some nice work being work done here, but somethings I think we should step back and deconstruct and not base everything off the sprites alone.
For example, the Hill top spike head badnik looks like it's getting off to a great start, but it doesn't look metallic.
I would suggest doing a quick google search of metal, just to look at how it picks up/reflects light, how scratches effect the surface etc, specular behavior etc,etc.

I'm not saying that Sonic 2 HD should suddenly become hyper realistic, but I do think that these lessons can be applied to the artwork behind it.

As a games artist in training, I was always encouaraged to think beyond the artwork I.e why is something/a detail there, how would it age, how would it behave in it's world (visually I mean).


I'm not trying to get all yoda on everybody just wanted to share thoughts.

[ICEknight]

SwissCM, on Apr 29 2008, 06:42 AM, said:

What about dithered gradients for some things? There are some cases of dithered gradients in Sonic 2 I think.

Gradients actually looked like solid colors on the TV, so please don't use gradients.

About the badnik... I wouldn't put rectangles as his pupils. And I agree that his "jaw" looks like part of the lightbulb, even though it's in the wrong position. I had never noticed till now.

This post has been edited by ICEknight: 29 April 2008 - 10:15 AM

[Polygon Jim]

[Vincent]

uk_resistant, on Apr 29 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

Some nice work being work done here, but somethings I think we should step back and deconstruct and not base everything off the sprites alone.
For example, the Hill top spike head badnik looks like it's getting off to a great start, but it doesn't look metallic.
I would suggest doing a quick google search of metal, just to look at how it picks up/reflects light, how scratches effect the surface etc, specular behavior etc,etc.

I'm not saying that Sonic 2 HD should suddenly become hyper realistic, but I do think that these lessons can be applied to the artwork behind it.

As a games artist in training, I was always encouaraged to think beyond the artwork I.e why is something/a detail there, how would it age, how would it behave in it's world (visually I mean).


I'm not trying to get all yoda on everybody just wanted to share thoughts.

While I agree to find a way to improve our works, we must to keep one style at least for characters and enemies and keep it together.
Since I would love to play this game during my lifetime span, if we stick and keep close to the original with the same art-style it'll be very likely.
Otherwise we'll produce either a huge load of talk or only one pro-artist will do all the frames.

The Hilltop badnik looks that way mainly because:
-Gradients and improper use of shades compared to the original. (but that's a base, It'll improve for sure)

[ICEknight]

[uk resistant]

Vincent, on Apr 29 2008, 04:20 PM, said:

uk_resistant, on Apr 29 2008, 05:02 PM, said:

Some nice work being work done here, but somethings I think we should step back and deconstruct and not base everything off the sprites alone.
For example, the Hill top spike head badnik looks like it's getting off to a great start, but it doesn't look metallic.
I would suggest doing a quick google search of metal, just to look at how it picks up/reflects light, how scratches effect the surface etc, specular behavior etc,etc.

I'm not saying that Sonic 2 HD should suddenly become hyper realistic, but I do think that these lessons can be applied to the artwork behind it.

As a games artist in training, I was always encouaraged to think beyond the artwork I.e why is something/a detail there, how would it age, how would it behave in it's world (visually I mean).


I'm not trying to get all yoda on everybody just wanted to share thoughts.

While I agree to find a way to improve our works, we must to keep one style at least for characters and enemies and keep it together.
Since I would love to play this game during my lifetime span, if we stick and keep close to the original with the same art-style it'll be very likely.
Otherwise we'll produce either a huge load of talk or only one pro-artist will do all the frames.

The Hilltop badnik looks that way mainly because:
-Gradients and improper use of shades compared to the original. (but that's a base, It'll improve for sure)

I'm not sure how that relates to what I am saying, aside from re-affirming the need for a cohesive style. I think you may misunderstand me when I say we should look at reference; I don't mean to say that the badniks need to be photo realistic, I just mean to say that with the HD resolution size, there should be room for some creative freedom.
I'm merely trying to encouarge the idea of taking what has been done and improving it, applying some logic to take the artwork to the next level.
Take for example, the original Sonic 2 hoax image. On Robotnik's walker, there is added panelling and some more wear and tear (I.e edges and the like).
That idea of taking what's been established and pushing to 11 is exactly what the project needs!

Otherwise the whole idea of literally remaking Sonic 2 in HD is more of a process then a creative output.

Also, I understand that the Badnik is Wip, I'm not meaning to jump down anyones trhoat, so keep plugging away!

(By the way if I misunderstood you then apologies for the speech, as you can tell I'm very interested in the project!)

This post has been edited by uk_resistant: 29 April 2008 - 11:11 AM

[Vincent]

Don't worry I understand your passion pretty well.

However, if we want to organize and produce frames and BG in this huge quantity, without becoming lifeless zombies in the process,we must set a way to let anyone interested helping us without exceeding with "personal styles".

That's why HD process as close at the original is the best one.

I personally like "cartoon style" because is the one I always liked in Sonic, and the example Hoax was too "cold" for my tastes.
The rest of that hoax is otherwise really great! That's why we decided to "test" 3D rendered with BG and bosses.

[uk resistant]

I agree, measures should be taken. Though that said, I do think the artwork shouldnt be flatshaded to the point where it looks flat. I
It should have volume, like the original does.

[Vincent]

If that's an improvement.. Why not?

What about special stages? Did you try some work on it?

[Blue Streak]

Athelstone, on Apr 29 2008, 07:12 AM, said:

- The general gradient for this badnik is excessive. I counted the colours to be 1244. Blue Streak's spikes for example are 190 colours.

Hah, I had no idea how many colors my spikes had. Thanks for counting!