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Sally in Sonic 1!

#76 User is offline Selbi 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 11:18 AM

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I guess this is the first time I played a "different character-hack" with having only three ideas. It was just brilliant and I'd really like to see a new version of it soon, with following things fixed:

- On the air-kick, I saw a tiny little pixel, which is just not right:

(Yeah, screw me for complaining about such a small thing, but incorrect art just annoys me. =P)

- Since you probably overwrote various art, the points after destroying an enemy are broken. I prefer to see them either fixed or removed.

-
QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jan 4 2010, 06:24 PM)

Oh please add this as well, somehow. Then, your hack seems to be complete in my eyes. smile.png

#77 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:18 PM

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QUOTE (RGamer2009 @ Jan 13 2010, 09:48 PM)
Kicks are awesome. I love the new animations.

It definitely makes the game...harder. Kicking in the air requires 2 button presses, so it takes some getting used to.

Also when I died at Labryinth Zone Act 3, I got a scrambled graphic for "Game Over"

I did see the new ending sprites you added. Awesome stuff.

Will you be changing the title screen as well?


New ending sprites? I didn't add anything outside the first revision (unless the garbled ones for the good ending have suddenly fixed themselves). Also making Sally slower seems to have made her run faster in the ending for some reason. The music doesn't even finish.

I might add a 'Sally Acorn In' sub-heading like for the Knuckles games, but otherwise I might leave it 'as-is' since it is meant to be character in the same game (though I did fix that 'Press Start Button' activation). Making new alterations outside the character (unneccessary ones anyway, I took out some obstacles with SonED as her moves made it tricky to progress through) will probably be saved for a separate project.

QUOTE (Selbi @ Jan 14 2010, 11:18 AM)
I guess this is the first time I played a "different character-hack" with having only three ideas. It was just brilliant and I'd really like to see a new version of it soon, with following things fixed:

- On the air-kick, I saw a tiny little pixel, which is just not right:

(Yeah, screw me for complaining about such a small thing, but incorrect art just annoys me. =P)

- Since you probably overwrote various art, the points after destroying an enemy are broken. I prefer to see them either fixed or removed.

-
QUOTE (E-122-Psi @ Jan 4 2010, 06:24 PM)

Oh please add this as well, somehow. Then, your hack seems to be complete in my eyes. smile.png


I would be perfectly willing to fix all of those problems...if I knew how.

The enemy score I could probably reloate if I knew a free VRAM space.

EDIT: I've managed to fix that white dot on the kick attack however, don't know how that got onto there.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 14 January 2010 - 05:37 PM

#78 User is offline Enzo Aquarius 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:28 PM

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Good job with the kick idea. Although Sally is portrayed as one who prefers to avoid personal combat, it has been shown a number of times that her kicking ability is impressive (especially in the comic). Nice job! thumbsup.png
This post has been edited by Enzo Aquarius: 14 January 2010 - 12:28 PM

#79 User is offline ColinC10 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 12:45 PM

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As far as character-only hacks go, this just knocked "Mecha Sonic in Sonic 1" into second place. Smashing through the breakable walls is great fun! I'll definitely be watching this one.

#80 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 05:41 PM

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QUOTE (ColinC10 @ Jan 14 2010, 12:45 PM)
As far as character-only hacks go, this just knocked "Mecha Sonic in Sonic 1" into second place. Smashing through the breakable walls is great fun! I'll definitely be watching this one.


Thanx. I figured that might be a neat addition even if it's a little glitchy, only the ground kick works on walls and the smashed tiles come out as garbled. Branch problem in ASM perhaps?

QUOTE (Enzo Aquarius @ Jan 14 2010, 12:28 PM)
Good job with the kick idea. Although Sally is portrayed as one who prefers to avoid personal combat, it has been shown a number of times that her kicking ability is impressive (especially in the comic). Nice job! thumbsup.png


Thanx.

Yeah, I was wondering if her using NICOLE as a lazer would have worked better though (she only used it once but she didn't use physical attacks at all in SatAm). And the martial arts thing seems a bit generic, I'd rather give her something more unique.

#81 User is offline iojnekns 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 06:36 PM

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I see no reason why you couldn't include all of these moves, in addition to any other that you might dream up! Why would you have to forfeit kick moves to include a laser?

#82 User is offline Dr. Kylstein 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 08:43 PM

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I've been waiting for this release, and you did not disappoint! It's pretty neat how this alters the strategies for the game. I've also noticed art I hadn't the first time, and the thoroughness of the changes is something I haven't seen in many sprite-hacks. Of course, the art itself is awesome, especially the animation!

I have one small complaint, though. Could you move the kick to the 'B' button? I play with the original game pad, and the discussion starting here and ending with Sik's post describes the problem nicely.
This post has been edited by Dr. Kylstein: 14 January 2010 - 08:46 PM

#83 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 14 January 2010 - 09:25 PM

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QUOTE (Dr. Kylstein @ Jan 14 2010, 08:43 PM)
I've been waiting for this release, and you did not disappoint! It's pretty neat how this alters the strategies for the game. I've also noticed art I hadn't the first time, and the thoroughness of the changes is something I haven't seen in many sprite-hacks. Of course, the art itself is awesome, especially the animation!

I have one small complaint, though. Could you move the kick to the 'B' button? I play with the original game pad, and the discussion starting here and ending with Sik's post describes the problem nicely.


Thanx. Glad you like the changes.

Actually I was intending to use B beforehand, however I changed it to A so it neither interferes with debug (B to turn into an object) or the demos (which program C to jump, though the demos are pretty ****ed up from the gameplay changes anyway). I could make an alternate version if you wish.

#84 User is offline Mercury 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 05:55 AM

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QUOTE (iojnekns @ Jan 14 2010, 11:36 PM)
I see no reason why you couldn't include all of these moves, in addition to any other that you might dream up! Why would you have to forfeit kick moves to include a laser?

I agree. It's cool for characters to have a special ability along with their basic ability.

Although, Nicole is pretty small for having a powerful laser, and ranged attacks might make the game too easy. Perhaps if the laser was powered by Rings?

#85 User is offline ShadowsofYesterday 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 07:49 AM

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QUOTE (Dr. Kylstein @ Jan 14 2010, 08:43 PM)
I have one small complaint, though. Could you move the kick to the 'B' button? I play with the original game pad, and the discussion starting here and ending with Sik's post describes the problem nicely.

Careful with that. You can't please everyone. People who play with a real Genesis controller, or on a real Genesis, are likely to use the control scheme laid out in that thread you linked to (read: C button = primary action/jump). However, a lot of people don't HAVE a Genesis, or a Genesis controller (myself included). Personally, I play on an emulator with either a Logitech Dual Action or an XBox 360 controller. The Dual Action is basically a carbon copy of the PS2 controller, but for PC (and without force feedback), and of course, the 360 controller's button layout is the same. In other words, with either of those controllers it's most convenient for me to use their equivalent of the B button as the primary action button (read: jump), because that's the button that's closest to my thumb.

Basically, if you make a set control scheme that changes the function of the B button, you're pissing someone off, whether it's emulatorfags, or real-hardwarefags. In order to avoid this, the best option is for you to create a menu where people can customize their controls. A lot of later games (mostly from the 3D era and onward) have this, but you rarely see it in classic 2D platformers (because they're so simple they typically don't need it). I think if you put this in your hack, you could avoid people bitching over controls.

#86 User is offline iojnekns 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 08:16 AM

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I can't imagine anything that matters less. Although I highly doubt you were going to entertain the idea anyway, let me register my distaste at spending the amount of time and effort needed for creating a menu screen to address the most minor quibbles I can possibly think of (particularly at your fledgling level of ability) in lieu of spending time on the actual gameplay features that you want to include that would actually have an impact on gameplay.

The button is A. Get used to pressing A.

#87 User is offline Chimpo 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 08:22 AM

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QUOTE
Because unlike most consoles, the A button in the Mega Drive is the furthest one from the thumb :P Look at the NES, A is the main button but it's the nearest one to the thumb. I know this has been already said, but oh well.


The fuck? Did Sik have extremly tiny thumbs?

#88 User is offline E-122-Psi 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:36 AM

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QUOTE (Mercury @ Jan 15 2010, 05:55 AM)
QUOTE (iojnekns @ Jan 14 2010, 11:36 PM)
I see no reason why you couldn't include all of these moves, in addition to any other that you might dream up! Why would you have to forfeit kick moves to include a laser?

I agree. It's cool for characters to have a special ability along with their basic ability.

Although, Nicole is pretty small for having a powerful laser, and ranged attacks might make the game too easy. Perhaps if the laser was powered by Rings?


It's more along the lines I don't want to clutter up her control scheme too much, I think Sonic usually works better with a simplistic control scheme with usually only one or two buttons (even most of the SA1 characters kept this mechanic). When they started making things more complex I think things started to take a downturn (I was iffy about Heroes because it lacked the simplicity of the originals).

I was thinking more on the lines of NICOLE giving a little blast (be it part of Sally's own sprite or a separate projectile, though I'm still not sure how to input whole new sprites and programming outside of editing an existing one) rather than accurate projectile. It's actually less on the lines of making her attack more effeciant or work differently but more just making her gameplay and abilities unique. Rouge has kick abilities as does Sonic in Battle (the animations are actually based on those from said game), and martial arts just seems to be the generic 'placeholder' ability for any 'mortal' character (Coco Bandicoot also has martial arts). While the idea of a lazer isn't that new, NICOLE gives a slightly unique edge to the character. I guess I might be getting a little overambitious, I'm just kinda theorizing how I believe Sally would play if she were actually inserted into the games series, almost like I'm trying to endorse her and show what she could do, I guess.

Outside of that I want her to be an exceptional 'agility' character, hense why I want to figure out how to program a few jump moves like Wall Jump (though I already given her a higher jump that allows her to reach a few odd ledges that Sonic couldn't with good precision). Sally's high point is more manuevability than attack.

QUOTE (iojnekns @ Jan 15 2010, 08:16 AM)
I can't imagine anything that matters less. Although I highly doubt you were going to entertain the idea anyway, let me register my distaste at spending the amount of time and effort needed for creating a menu screen to address the most minor quibbles I can possibly think of (particularly at your fledgling level of ability) in lieu of spending time on the actual gameplay features that you want to include that would actually have an impact on gameplay.

The button is A. Get used to pressing A.


Truthfully I think just making an alternate upload with B attacks would be A LOT easier anyway, it actually would take all of a few minutes to make. That said I may wait until I make a new revision that makes a few fixes and alterations first otherwise I'll just have to double my load everytime I make a refinement.
This post has been edited by E-122-Psi: 15 January 2010 - 10:45 AM

#89 User is offline ICEknight 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 10:54 AM

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"A" to kick? I can't remember the last official Mega Drive game that didn't use "B" to attack (and then, "C" to jump) as default. =\
This post has been edited by ICEknight: 15 January 2010 - 10:55 AM

#90 User is offline Dr. Kylstein 

Posted 15 January 2010 - 11:19 AM

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I didn't expect so much bickering after it seemed to be settled in the other thread.
QUOTE (ShadowsofYesterday @ Jan 15 2010, 07:49 AM)
Careful with that. You can't please everyone. People who play with a real Genesis controller, or on a real Genesis, are likely to use the control scheme laid out in that thread you linked to (read: C button = primary action/jump). However, a lot of people don't HAVE a Genesis, or a Genesis controller (myself included). Personally, I play on an emulator with either a Logitech Dual Action or an XBox 360 controller. The Dual Action is basically a carbon copy of the PS2 controller, but for PC (and without force feedback), and of course, the 360 controller's button layout is the same. In other words, with either of those controllers it's most convenient for me to use their equivalent of the B button as the primary action button (read: jump), because that's the button that's closest to my thumb.

So remap the emulator controls! Put buttons that were close together on the Genesis close together on your gamepad. People using real hardware don't have that option, you do.

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